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So, do you really want to know what "camp" is? This is! Oh, and this one too! But this one is just bad, not even bad camp!

By the way, is Tiki camp or kitsch? Now, there's a mind-scratcher!

Tiki is kitsch but if you stage Strauss' Electra in it it's camp.

Well Queen Liz (Taylor), Maria Montez, Noel Coward, Tura Satana, Judy Garland were all unintentional camp.

I beg to differ. Noel Coward was camp to the tits as was Judy particularly in I Could Go On Singing. Liz is very (intentional) camp in X, Y and Zee. She's a tad less intentional in Reflections in a Golden Eye, but her Cleopatra is pure intentional camp -- particularly her grand entrance into Rome.

The Wizard of Oz is not camp but making reference to it is.

David Ehrenstein wrote:Tiki is kitsch but if you stage Strauss' Electra in it it's camp.

Now, that's a thought!

And I might just take the opportunity to ask a question that's been pestering my mind for ages and I never had the guts to ask it around here but seeing that this thread provided me with the perfect opportunity, here it goes:

Is there a film out there that features Tiki furniture or other parafernalia prominently in its production design? Can I even begin to dream that such a thing exists at all?

David Ehrenstein wrote:Noel Coward was camp to the tits as was Judy particularly in I Could Go On Singing. Liz is very (intentional) camp in X, Y and Zee. She's a tad less intentional in Reflections in a Golden Eye, but her Cleopatra is pure intentional camp -- particularly her grand entrance into Rome.

The Wizard of Oz is not camp but making reference to it is.

I agree that her CLEOPATRA is pure camp, but Liz at her campiest still is and always will be Sissy Goforth in BOOM. And I didn't say THE WIZARD OF OZ is camp (it surely is not), but Judy Garland is.

Also, all the Dreamlanders are camp, Divine being the queen.

Is there a film out there that features Tiki furniture or other parafernalia prominently in its production design?

Wasp Woman if memory serves. There's Tiki in much early Corman in any event

Boom is indeed great camp. But then so is great deal of Losey. Modesty Bliase is a camp masterpiece. and there's considerable camp in Eve and The Gypsy and the Gentleman.

[4F11] Homer Phobia (1997)

Homer: Fifty bucks for a toy? No kid is worth that!

John: But this is the Rex Mars Atomic Discombobulator. Don't you just love the graphics on this box?

Homer: No. How can you love a box, or a toy or graphics? You're a grown man.

John: It's camp!

[Homer stares nonplussed]

The tragically ludicrous? The ludicrously tragic?

Homer: Oh, yeah. Like when a clown dies.

John: Well, sort of. But I mean more like inflatable furniture or "Last Supper" TV trays, or even this bowling shirt. Can you believe somebody gave this to goodwill?

Forgive my quasi-cheekiness, David, but that's in Henry V.

Unless he made that mistake in the original. If so, then color me red and call me Trevor.

If I ever made a list of things I thought Robert Mitchum probably did in his life, making a Calypso record would've been @ 11,539th.

Speaking of THE INNOCENTS, and campy shit albums, let's kill 2 birds with one drink straw..

Lino wrote:Is there a film out there that features Tiki furniture or other parafernalia prominently in its production design? Can I even begin to dream that such a thing exists at all?

Hmm... I think that Psycho Beach Party comes pretty close. I'm thinking of the scene at The Great Kanaka's shack and at the luau towards the end with some very large tikis, that Los Straitjackets play at.

Thanks! That's the kind of thing I was looking for! And you can thank Taschen for introducing me to the wonderfully silly world of Tiki and making me a convert inbetween. From there to finding a movie with Tiki in it, was a given from the start chez moi. You see, some people sexualize everything. I "movie-alize" everything!

You might also want to check this place out for discussion of all things tiki-related.

So, as a closing statement, I think it's safe to assume that when you are talking camp (as in the original sense of the word) this is what you want to mean:



Lesson learned, guys?

Here's a belated review of that disc by DVDSavant. Maybe Glenn has been reading this thread?

Sins of the Fleshapoids is wonderful in its craziness. More Kuchar can be found on http://www.ubu.com.

Holy Jesus-- camp in it's original european (say, Weimar) Jazz age usage in on display here with Petula Clark in the scenes with the dancers in the opening (they return about halfway thru, so don't go away), very close to what dave hare was talking about in the fabulous club scenes in MALDONE.

I hunted this up because I used to remember this song playing on my moms radio when I was a baby in a stroller in 67-8.

Camp also depends on acknowledged/transparent performance. Mankiewicz and Leisen were masters of camp since their characters are always involved in some type of masquerade/charade/performance. It is not accidental that the image of Bette Davis that most people have is of her as Margo Channing. Camp enagages its audience in questions of identity which is why it is more a queer phenomenon than a straight one since queer identity is much more problematic than non-queer identity.

Camp is also transformative. One of the great camp experiences I ever had was watching ALL ABOUT EVE at The Spike, a fabulous leather bar in New York City. By the end of the movie all the leather jackets had become fur coats, voices had dropped an octave or two, and the place was now packed with Margos, Eves, Phoebes and even a Birdie or two.

When camp is debased it becomes kitsch which is non-transformative. Kitsch depends on the viewer not being involved, but rather being superior to that which she looks at.

As I'm sure you'll appreciate, Brian, the waiters at "Max's Kansas City" were commonly referred to as "the Phoebes."

One of the great camp experiences I ever had was watching ALL ABOUT EVE at The Spike, a fabulous leather bar in New York City. By the end of the movie all the leather jackets had become fur coats, voices had dropped an octave or two, and the place was now packed with Margos, Eves, Phoebes and even a Birdie or two.

Thanks for the memory. I loved Spike. One of my favorite 1980s haunts.

As I'm sure you'll appreciate, Brian, the waiters at "Max's Kansas City" were commonly referred to as "the Phoebes."

I didn't know, but it sounds right. Mankiewicz did project a future world overrun with Phoebes in the last shot of ALL ABOUT EVE.

Thanks for the memory. I loved Spike. One of my favorite 1980s haunts.

Just hanging out there (or The Eagle up the street when you had absolutely had with The Spike -- at least for that evening) was one of the purest camp experiences you could have. I think that is one of the things people misunderstand about camp -- it is interactive. You cannot merely consume it; camp demands engagement.

I had the similar experience and it was Pink Flamingos showing in a gay bar. It was a hell of fun.

There's a great moment in the shamefully underrated A Home at the End of the World where the trio (Colin Farrell, Dallas Roberts, Robin Wright Penn) are watching All About Eve at the Theater 80 St. Marks, mouthing the dialogue right along with the actors on screen.

How well I remember going to Theater 80 screenings in the early 70's, especially one of Ziegfeld Follies. When Judy Garland's "A Great Lady Has An Interview" number began a guy sitting next to me turned to his friend and said "And now, Our National Anthem."

There's a great moment in the shamefully underrated A Home at the End of the World where the trio (Colin Farrell, Dallas Roberts, Robin Wright Penn) are watching All About Eve at the Theater 80 St. Marks, mouthing the dialogue right along with the actors on screen.

We do that in our living room. Grey Gardens is the one that we do the most next to the reruns of Golden Girls.

There's a great moment in the shamefully underrated A Home at the End of the World where the trio (Colin Farrell, Dallas Roberts, Robin Wright Penn) are watching All About Eve at the Theater 80 St. Marks, mouthing the dialogue right along with the actors on screen.

I think Howard Otway (proprietor/owner/scheduler of Theater 80 St. Marks) did more for postmodernism than almost anyone else simply by pairing ALL ABOUT EVE with SUNSET BLVD. and showing them regularly (it was almost invariably a Fri/Sat double bill). I first saw A LETTER TO THREE WIVES there as well.

Glad you brought up Sunset Boulevard That one's a fascinating "borderline case". It skirts camp frequently -- especially in the first quarter. Ultimately Norma isn't ridiculous but truly tragic. The greatness of the film lies in the way Wilder and Swanson make us believe this woman's impossible dream is worthy of respect. Her fall is genuinely Racinian.

By contrast Whatever Happened to Baby Jane -- its Bizarro World reflection - is camp to the tits. Joan Crawford obviously thought she was making a serious thriller, but Bette Davis knew better, creating in Baby Jane Hudson a camp masterpiece -- and almost as much of a career-capper as Sunset Boulevard was for Swanson.

"But ya are in a wheelchair, Blanche -- ya are in a wheelchair!"