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Well, damn. And I was really looking forward to this, too.

kieslowski_67 wrote:This is probably my favorite Ang film to date. However, I am afraid that you probably have to understand the Chinese culture and the writer to fully appreciate this film.

But not understanding Chinese culture doesn't preclude you from understanding anything - there are quite a few universalities in the story: about the effects of upbringing, about the nature of love, when aren't we putting on an act, the "war-is-hell" bit... Eileen Chang has been discussed quite a bit in Chinese literature while she's unknown in English lit, but she's not completely inaccessible.

I dunno, but the more I think about it, the more I find in it.

Good film. Technically everything was done very well. Psychologically it was a bit lacking, but I don't get the bashing the critics has been giving the film, unless they were just nitpicking for nitpicking's sake. It's not a masterpiece but it's a continuation of Ang Lee's classically well done films. We call it "Sick, Guy" here because in Cantonese that's what it sounds like...

Coming to DVD Feb 19

Tony Leung is one of my favorite actors but he's like the same guy in every movie. This doesn't look like an exception.

sidehacker wrote:Tony Leung is one of my favorite actors but he's like the same guy in every movie. This doesn't look like an exception.

But he plays the same guy brilliantly.... and his work here is no exception.

But an R-Rated cut? the fuck? And too think I thought a studio actually grew some balls for a second....

It's coming in both the unrated and rated cuts. Remember, Blockbuster doesn't carry NC-17 and though they are in demise, they still wield some power.

Antoine Doinel wrote:It's coming in both the unrated and rated cuts. Remember, Blockbuster doesn't carry NC-17 and though they are in demise, they still wield some power.

I understand, but the fact that Focus decided to release in theaters NC-17 (a daring move for such a high-profile picture), it gave me some hope they would continue to now, since it's moves like that which will help break the stigma. Hell, just release it on DVD "Unrated", the hypocrites at Hollywood and other DVD rental/retailers have no problem with that. Cutting out four minutes for the film seems just so pointless... Are there really people who wanted to go see this, but were put off by the NC-17, and are now expected to come flocking for the R-rated version?

sidehacker wrote:Tony Leung is one of my favorite actors but he's like the same guy in every movie. This doesn't look like an exception.

So you never saw his over the top gay character in Jackie Chan's Gorgeous film? I still have nightmares about that one!

Cold Bishop wrote:But he plays the same guy brilliantly.... and his work here is no exception.

Agreed! And he has experience of naughty sex scenes from The Lover!

Cold Bishop wrote:

sidehacker wrote:Tony Leung is one of my favorite actors but he's like the same guy in every movie. This doesn't look like an exception.

But he plays the same guy brilliantly.... and his work here is no exception.

I wasn't saying otherwise. I just don't how long he can keep up with this "gentle poet" act.

sidehacker wrote:

Cold Bishop wrote:

sidehacker wrote:Tony Leung is one of my favorite actors but he's like the same guy in every movie. This doesn't look like an exception.

But he plays the same guy brilliantly.... and his work here is no exception.

I wasn't saying otherwise. I just don't how long he can keep up with this "gentle poet" act.

well... I don't think he's a "gentle poet" in this film, more the "anguished poet with a penchant for brutal sex" (there ain't nothing gentle about him here). So maybe it's not the same character.

Cold Bishop wrote:

sidehacker wrote:

Cold Bishop wrote: But he plays the same guy brilliantly.... and his work here is no exception.

I wasn't saying otherwise. I just don't how long he can keep up with this "gentle poet" act.

well... I don't think he's a "gentle poet" in this film, more the "anguished poet with a penchant for brutal sex" (there ain't nothing gentle about him here). So maybe it's not the same character.

Gentle or anguished poet? His character in Lust, Caution is a brutal, violent, almost psychopathic mass murderer. It's an extremely complex performance in a ridiculously underrated film.

rs98762001 wrote:Gentle or anguished poet? His character in Lust, Caution is a brutal, violent, almost psychopathic mass murderer. It's an extremely complex performance in a ridiculously underrated film.

I like your description better, but you forgot the sex part.

colinr0380 wrote:

Cold Bishop wrote:But he plays the same guy brilliantly.... and his work here is no exception.

Agreed! And he has experience of naughty sex scenes from The Lover!

That's a different Tony Leung. Leung Ka-Fai was in Annaud's film, Leung Chiu-Wai was in Lee's film...

Whoops! (Shows I shouldn't post about something until I've seen the film and know what I'm talking about!)

Despite her scenes being heavily edited in China, the Chinese government has deemed actress Tang Wei a "non-person" and has pulled any media (ads, television appearances etc) from all networks in the country. Ang Lee is miffed.

One suggestion was that it may not have been the sexual content, but the fact her role involves her falling in love with and helping a traitor. So it's "patriotic" reasons rather than matters of decency.

Antoine Doinel wrote:Despite her scenes being heavily edited in China, the Chinese government has deemed actress Tang Wei a "non-person" and has pulled any media (ads, television appearances etc) from all networks in the country. Ang Lee is miffed.

so I've always wanted to see this and was unaware of the whole NC-17 thing and found it at Big Lots today for $3 and snagged it in part as it is declared the "R-Rated version not seen in theaters!" - suggesting it is a preferred director's cut or something. I feel rather duped finding out it's precisely the opposite!

that said, it was $3 and I'm assuming the difference lies in the sex scenes, but I also recall hearing that they were not just graphic, but violent in a way that was crucial to understanding the characters. Does anyone know if this version detracts from that aspect of understanding the story? I can find the boobies if they are cut...but would hate to miss vital parts of character development. Has anyone seen both versions?

Even though I've only seen the unrated version, I can confidently assure you that the sex scenes are tied to the main character's overall emotional arc. Just like with Last Tango in Paris. You're definetly going to be missing emotional nuances by watching only the truncated version. Especially when it comes to the end. But then again, if the cuts involve only a few seconds then maybe it doesn't matter too much.

EDIT: Here's a website(NSFW) with a side by side comparison on the DVDs. And here's a thread on the subject on DVDTalk.

Not a bad film, but probably not as good as it could've been. I do agree with Cold Bishop that it's hard to pin down where the film went wrong. Sex scenes notwithstanding, the emotional pull of the film is fairly cool. I certainly didn't sense the feverishness that Lee says he felt during the making of it. It's arguably a bit overlong, but even now I have doubts if a judicious cut would've made any difference.

Numero Trois wrote:Not a bad film, but probably not as good as it could've been. I do agree with Cold Bishop that it's hard to pin down where the film went wrong. Sex scenes notwithstanding, the emotional pull of the film is fairly cool. I certainly didn't sense the feverishness that Lee says he felt during the making of it. It's arguably a bit overlong, but even now I have doubts if a judicious cut would've made any difference.

I haven't seen the film, but your assessment sounds a lot like a friend's pithy summation: "Too much caution; not enough lust."

zedz wrote:I haven't seen the film, but your assessment sounds a lot like a friend's pithy summation: "Too much caution; not enough lust."

Which is exactly how Chinese people are like. ](*,)

Yuck! Remind me to never read my old film writing.

Although I still feel about the same towards this film.

andyli wrote:Which is exactly how Chinese people are like. ](*,)

Before we get into stereotypes don't forget Zhang Yimou's early films are anything but cautious. Quite a bit of lust in them and not too deliberate. Although he himself did acknowledge that with films like Red Sorghum the point was to go against the perceived national stereotype.