criterionforum.org

It's not really so surprising that we imagine the recent past through a veil of contemporary images. This has very little to do with the conventions of Hollywood filmmaking. True, I happen to enjoy the conventions of the lush, beautiful, epic period piece and it seems a lot of other people like this too, given the recent popularity of There Will Be Blood (shot in cinemascope, chemically-graded). But, of course, you can use any piece of modern equipment to do anything and the results may or may not be interesting. I thoroughly enjoyed von Trier's 'recreation' of the 30s in Dogville / Mandalay. But.

Transposed into a period setting, Mann loses many of the crutches that make his films interesting - the intensive field research, the modernist architecture, the fast cars/ speed boats... Perhaps this is the real source of my concern, combined with the prospect of Mann's rough, noisy, edge HD cinematography, which worked brilliantly in Miami Vice but would fail to deliver on the nostalghia factor here. Given Mann's strengths and weaknesses as a filmmaker, I thus stick by my initial gut reaction that this is more likely to work out right if he leaves the Digiprimes at home. But, as I said before, I'm quite willing to be proven wrong. I was dreading the use of HD in Miami Vice and it turned out to be perhaps the best use of the format to date. So...

The switching between video / 35mm in Collateral is anything but seamless, btw, although I believe Mann does throw some hidden 35mm into Vice here and there. You can make film look like video, but you can't make video look like film... And it's not so surprising that Zodiac still has a video look to it given that... it was shot on video. Fincher is obsessed with the latest technology (pure data editing work flows, yadda yadda yadda) and the lofty concerns posited earlier give him far too much credit.

I'd quite happily accept your challenge on comparing HD and 35mm images, although if the 35mm has gone through DI that can close the margin. Also, HD holds up better in extremely controlled lighting conditions. It amuses me that something like the RED is touted as well-suited to documentary filmmaking when documentary conditions are exactly where the limitations are going to be most noticable. But you can look at the Jackson short and the problems of dynamic range are quite clearly still evident.

Antoine Doinel wrote:That's a dubious argument at best. So should classic music forms (jazz, blues) only be recorded on analog tape or cut straight to lathe vinyl? Should the artists just use instruments of the era? Should Michael Mann go find a camera from the 1930s to remain "authentic"?

Certainly, one could say that any traditional jazz or blues that wasn't recorded on analog tape or lathe vinyl isn't worth listening to...

Nothing wrote:

Antoine Doinel wrote:That's a dubious argument at best. So should classic music forms (jazz, blues) only be recorded on analog tape or cut straight to lathe vinyl? Should the artists just use instruments of the era? Should Michael Mann go find a camera from the 1930s to remain "authentic"?

Certainly, one could say that any traditional jazz or blues that wasn't recorded on analog tape or lathe vinyl isn't worth listening to...

And wouldn't it be a better analogy if you said that classic music forms should only be recorded with the actual instruments instead of high-tech synthesizers?

Cold Bishop wrote:And wouldn't it be a better analogy if you said that classic music forms should only be recorded with the actual instruments instead of high-tech synthesizers?

I believe I'd take Carlos Kleiber over Wendy Carlos.

John Ortiz has joined the cast:

Ortiz informed MTV.com that he'll play gangster Al Capone's right-hand man, Frank Nitti. "It's totally old school. All of the gangster films that we see, and the stories, including American Gangster, it started with those guys back in the '30s," Ortiz said of Public Enemies.

Nothing wrote:It's not really so surprising that we imagine the recent past through a veil of contemporary images. This has very little to do with the conventions of Hollywood filmmaking.

The two do have to do with one another, insofar as the conventions of Hollywood filmmaking are one means by which we imagine the past. And I take Sausage's comments here to be very much to the point, that spectators of Hollywood films have come to see the past in films 'the right way', while deviations from 'the right way' feel to some degree jarring and unnatural. So, the question of whether the visual style Mann renders in Miami Vice would 'grate in a period piece' speaks more to spectator expectation of what the past looks and feels like, borne largely out of Hollywood stylistic conventions, than it does to the absolute merits of one filmmaking medium or another in 'correctly' representing the past.

Well there are both non-fictional and fictional images from the prohibition of the 1930s, both of which inform our mental picture. The photos of Dillinger and Capone on the one hand, Scarface and The Public Enemy on the other. Whilst these representations themselves are of course mediated, they are nevertheless the closest we are ever likely to come to an accurate visual picture of the period. In a straightforward way, it therefore makes sense that mainstream narrative filmmakers would refer to such contemporary visual sources both to get as close to the 'source' as possible and to tap into our collective mental image. Leone achieved spectacular results with this approach in Once Upon a Time in America (Coppola also, in regards to the previous decades, in Godfather Part II). Which is not to say that digital is inherently 'wrong' - and if Watkins or Trier had been directing this film I wouldn't even have brought it up - although I do believe the use of current digital technology in this context to be self-consciously anachronistic. To be honest, I can't imagine a prohibition film of the quality of the Leone coming along anytime soon on either celluloid or CMOS.

More casting news:

Wenham, Graham join 'Public Enemies'
By Borys Kit. Hollywood Reporter. Feb 22, 2008

David Wenham and Stephen Graham have joined the cast of Universal's "Public Enemies," Michael Mann's gangster film starring Johnny Depp and Christian Bale.

An adaptation of Brian Burrough's book "Public Enemies: America's Greatest Crime Wave and the Birth of the FBI, 1933-43," the film centers on the government's attempt to stop John Dillinger and his gang. Depp is playing Dillinger to Bale's famed FBI agent Melvin Purvis.

Wenham is playing Pete Pierpont, a member of Dillinger's crew who has a violent hostility to all authority. British actor Graham will portray Baby Face Nelson.

Also in the cast are Marion Cotillard, Channing Tatum, Giovanni Ribisi and Stephen Dorff.

Shooting begins in March in Chicago.

An interview with the author of the book - Brian Burroughs - that the film is based largely on.

Burroughs' blog.

Anyone else having Newton Boys flashbacks?
Skeet Urich's all grown up!

images of Depp in action are popping up all over the place.

According to the IMDB, Dante Spinotti is the DP on this one. Very, very cool.

Somebody tell those boys to take the gloves OFF. You can't get your finger between the trigger and the trigger guard when you are wearing gloves.
Remember the climactic shootout in "Shane" where Jack Palance slowly puts on a glove? Ben Johnson laughed about it for years and said, "I'd be taking off the glove, not putting it on".

Why is Spinotti on this Mann film, but not the previous ones?

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote:Why is Spinotti on this Mann film, but not the previous ones?

Which begs the question is this film going to be shot mainly on film stock as opposed to digital and is that why Mann and Spinotti have not worked together on his past few films? I don't know much about Spinotti's working methods but does he work with digital cameras now or does he prefer film stock?

I heard they had a falling out when Spinotti decided to shoot Red Dragon, but who knows if it's true.

Belmondo wrote:Somebody tell those boys to take the gloves OFF. You can't get your finger between the trigger and the trigger guard when you are wearing gloves.

You try robbing a bank in March in Chicago without gloves.

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote:Why is Spinotti on this Mann film, but not the previous ones?

Because Dion Beebe is booked? Who knows.

The Chicago Tribune's coverage: here and here.

From Variety:

Crudup to play Hoover in 'Public'
Mann taps Lang as leader of Texas Rangers
By MICHAEL FLEMING

Billy Crudup has been set to play FBI director J. Edgar Hoover in "Public Enemies," the Michael Mann-directed crime drama for Universal that stars Johnny Depp as John Dillinger.

Mann has also set Stephen Lang to play Winstead, the leader of the Texas Rangers who joins the manhunt for John Dillinger and his gang. Christian Bale and Marion Cotillard also star.

Crudup most recently starred in the romantic comedy "Dedication." Lang, a regular on Mann's "Crime Story" series, also worked with the director on "Manhunter" and "Band of the Hand."

Can someone this being shot on film or digital? (I would think the former.)

More than a storyteller, I've always accepted Michael Mann as a master technician; so any other production details would be greatly appreciated.

A friend of mine is on it. It's being shot in HD with the Viper, I believe.

TedW wrote:A friend of mine is on it. It's being shot in HD with the Viper, I believe.

I was afraid of that. This is a period piece, and using digital is extremely ballsy of him. (Though after "Miami Vice," I didn't really expect Mann to ever return to film.) Nevertheless, be very interesting to see how the exterior daytime scenes handle on the Viper.

Apparently Spinotti is shooting it in a very naturalistic style, which has been Mann's preference for awhile, except on video. And I should find out whether he's using the "Filmstream" mode (à la Zodiac) or the more video-ish "HDstream" mode, à la Miami Vice. My guess is Mann thinks Miami Vice looks great and so a similar look is what he'll be going for here. BTW, my friend also tells me the production design and costuming are excellent, as you might expect.

TedW wrote:Apparently Spinotti is shooting it in a very naturalistic style, which has been Mann's preference for awhile, except on video. And I should find out whether he's using the "Filmstream" mode (à la Zodiac) or the more video-ish "HDstream" mode, à la Miami Vice. My guess is Mann thinks Miami Vice looks great and so a similar look is what he'll be going for here. BTW, my friend also tells me the production design and costuming are excellent, as you might expect.

I'd love for him to use the Miami Vice look.

The grittiness of video reminds me of 16mm or early 35mm. It adds character, I felt. Be great to see it used in a period piece as well.

I trust Mann though, he hasn't shot one ugly looking movie.

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:I trust Mann though, he hasn't shot one ugly looking movie.

Hold on there, fella...

More casting news. From Variety:

Shawn Hatosy
By BYRON PERRY

Shawn Hatosy (“The Cooler”) has landed a role as an FBI agent in Michael Mann’s “Public Enemies,” starring Johnny Depp. Hatosy most recently starred in the Weinstein Co.’s “Factory Girl,” alongside Sienna Miller, and in Nick Cassavetes’ “Alpha Dog.”

and from Upcoming Film Scores:

Elliot Goldenthal: Public Enemies

Academy Award-winning composer Elliot Goldenthal reunites with director Michael Mann, 13 years after his score for Mann's intense action thriller Heat. According to the Gorfaine-Schwartz Agency, Goldenthal is attached to Public Enemies, Mann's 1930s gangster epic starring Johnny Depp, Christian Bale and Channing Tatum. Mann's films are usually accompanied by an eclectic soundtrack, so we can probably expect music by other creative talents in addition to the original score by Elliot Goldenthal in the final cut of the film. Mann's own company, Forward Pass, and Robert De Niro's Tribeca Productions co-produce with Kevin Misher (The Interpreter). Public Enemies is expected to come out next year.

First pic of Bale in costume.

C'mon, man, that's not even a picture.

That particular photo is quintessential Michael Mann. If I were making a parody of a Mann film, I would start with a shot like this of the solitary, professional man starring out of a window and brooding with existential doubt. The only thing its missing is a blue color filter.