criterionforum.org

Face tones in Criterion's transfer are corpse-like. What a disappointment.

I still hafta go with CC on this one. CC's look far closer to what I'd assume the vintage film looks (based on childhood cinema viewings of its contemporaries in revival), and I doubt they went to the fine grains and deliberately decided to pour yellow hues all over the white.

Look around you right now. Where, within your room, on your clothes, on your walls, do you see something that would constitute pure color-wheel/digital pallette white? Nowhere. Such a thing doesn't exist. The shadows and the natural light in the room are going to throw a patina over it and corrupt it.. if you think you're looking at pure uncorrupted natural white without any greying or yellowing contribution from shadow or sun/artificial light, you're wrong. I'm looking at a white painted wall five feet from me right now, bathed in natural sunlight: it looks just like the CC caps. It's picking up the reflective interplay of other, colored, objects around the room, has highlights, greytones. Now, even if you think you're seeing pure uncorrupted white unaffected by the interplay and hueing of light and shadow and surface dirt, imagine that white photographed from a distance under a colored yellowing fill light and picked up by insensitive and unnatural-registering vintage color film stock. Your white will no longer be pure-- PURE-- white, guaranteed.

The Atlantic looks like the digital world modern viewers have grown so accustomed to-- the CC looks like the natural world we actually live in, bathed in a dp's off-color light, and picked up by old color stock.

It looks clearly in the CC caps that Tati's dp is using a yellowish tinged fill light which roughly approximates the creamy yellowish-white luminosity of the sun at a particular time of the day, and this is what it hitting the walls and the cars in a generic fill. There's a near-incandescent look to it that says "fill light", and the interplay between this light and the vintage film stock is of course going to give the film that "aquatic" look that is of course unique to the world of vintage color. I absolutely agree with the beev's assessment of the two transfers that the CC is superior. Looking at it I'm reminded of going to the cinema in my childhood, and the wonderful look of the old film stock.

HerrSchreck wrote:(Everything Schreck said above...)

You're probably right. I'm not actually complaining too much because otherwise it looks quite sharp (the Atlantic does look softer) and the clean up is excellent, and I think most everyone will be happy with that. Still, when watching it I was just sort of unsure about the colours. Then looking at the Beaver compares later the colours on the Atlantic were probebly more what I was expecting. But like you said, maybe the yellowish look was Tati's intent. The colour scheme to the film would say so (but the CC still presents rather pale skin tones.)

I don't get all the bellyaching -- this transfer looks freaking amazing. If the skin tones are a bit pale, I barely noticed. And there's plenty of pure white throughout the film -- look at all the lines and arrows and traffic signs on the roads for one. Those captures on DVD Beaver just don't match what I see my TV screen at all. (like that shot of the interior of the camper – the dashboard looks white to me on screen, not yellow.)

Have never understood why this film is considered to somehow be a lesser Tati film -- I think it's brilliant. It logically follows behind Mon Oncle and Playtime very well as another unique look at 'modern living' as seen by Tati. And as a continuation of the Hulot character, it doesn't feel awkward at all. Love the performance by Maria Kimberly and Charles Dumont's music is perfect.

The supplements are pure joy to watch. Interesting to see a shot in the trailer that didn't make it into the final cut of the film. Beautiful package and menu design, I'm a little bummed it's not a digipak. (Mishima/Patriotism/Vampyr more than makeup for that though...) Trafic is an outstanding release!

I think "neutral white" would have been a better choice of words than "pure white." The white does not have to be "color-wheel/digital palette" white, of course, but it should reflect how the scene was filmed, what else was in the shot, and so on. Instead all the whites seem to reflect the same tint, like looking at the film through a slightly dull-greenish-yellow screen. If this is what the cinematographers and/or Tati wanted to look, then any complaints are moot, but I was wondering if there was any more to this than speculation and faith in Criterion not to have fucked it up (and there are ample precedents for them getting colors wrong, not that I'm saying they're guilty until proven innocent).
I'm totally willing to accept that the colors are correct, and even that it looks better when it's playing than what the Beaver caps reflect. I'll hold off on commenting any further until I get the disc (whenever that will be).

Image aside, I would respectfully take issue with cdnchris on his review's assertion that "While Tati’s films don’t usually depend all that much on the audio, his audio tracks can get rather complex with many people speaking at once and a variety of sound effects thrown in."

I can think of few other directors whose films depend more on the audio than Tati's.

I haven´t seen Atlantic´s or CC´s Tati discs, but the Beaver caps for TRAFIC do strike me as dominated by an odd green-grey tinge. Very noticeable, and it´s the same tinge as on Atlantic´s PLAY TIME as per Beaver´s caps, if I don´t misremember.

Matango wrote:Image aside, I would respectfully take issue with cdnchris on his review's assertion that "While Tati’s films don’t usually depend all that much on the audio, his audio tracks can get rather complex with many people speaking at once and a variety of sound effects thrown in."

I can think of few other directors whose films depend more on the audio than Tati's.

I'd hate to think you're getting worked up over a comment that was made more in passing and I wasn't saying Tati's use of sound was sub-par, because it's not. While I do agree with you, I've always felt his images were his primary concern and that you could watch his films silent and they'd still work.

EDIT: Though now thinking about it more, I guess they wouldn't be anywhere near as fun.

Sound is just as important as image in Tati's films – the meticulous construction of his soundtracks remind me of Kubrick. One of the great idiosyncrasies of Trafic are the anthropomorphizing of the cars -- most of time they sound tired, cranky or in pain. Almost cartoon-like really. Almost makes me want to feel more sorry for the cars than the people!

cdnchris wrote:

Matango wrote:Image aside, I would respectfully take issue with cdnchris on his review's assertion that "While Tati’s films don’t usually depend all that much on the audio, his audio tracks can get rather complex with many people speaking at once and a variety of sound effects thrown in."

I can think of few other directors whose films depend more on the audio than Tati's.

I'd hate to think you're getting worked up over a comment that was made more in passing and I wasn't saying Tati's use of sound was sub-par, because it's not. While I do agree with you, I've always felt his images were his primary concern and that you could watch his films silent and they'd still work.

EDIT: Though now thinking about it more, I guess they wouldn't be anywhere near as fun.

I wasn't getting worked up, and I know you weren't saying his use of sound was sub-par. The bit about how his films "don't usually depend all that much on the audio" just caught my eye is all. It's a bit like saying that Ozu films don't rely on pillow shots.

This movie made me wish my TV was bigger. No matter how big my TV ever is, a Tati film is going to make me wish my TV was bigger. Tati accidentally walking into the police chief's office and then exiting was a masterpiece.

Is the booklet substantial? I'm assuming this comes in a standard figure-8...

Standard figure eight with a 10-12 page booklet.

10-12? Sigh. I can't seem to figure out why this is an upper tier release, they certainly didn't treat it like one.

mfunk9786 wrote:10-12? Sigh. I can't seem to figure out why this is an upper tier release, they certainly didn't treat it like one.

Yeah, that feature-length docu and all those interviews are so insubstantial.

I watched the film and have gotten about half way through the extras now and the greenish-tint look of the film didn't bother me at all. I believe that there were several brief scenes (that bit where the border cop wanted the soap analyzed) that weren't in the VHS version that I had seen a few years ago but maybe they were there and I needed the subtitles (the version that I saw was dubbed but only half of the dialogue was bothered with) to point them out to me. Either way, I love that movie. I think it is my second favorite Tati (after Playtime obv).

Anyone have any suggestions as to which M. Hulot film I should start out with?

psufootball07 wrote:Anyone have any suggestions as to which M. Hulot film I should start out with?

I would watch in order.

Holiday... Uncle... Playtime... Traffic

Thanks, I think I will do just that. I saw that Mon Oncle won the best foreign film, so I was thinking about starting there.

Chronological isn't a bad idea since there's a clear evolution of Hulot's character from Holiday to Mon Oncle to Playtime (I haven't seen Trafic). Mon Oncle and Playtime are cut from the same cloth (where the gags and the structure all serve a central theme), while Holiday is more of a sweet-flavored standalone (to me) with a few inklings of where Tati goes later. And each of the Criterions has a Tati short film (sans Trafic). The only real problem is that the Mon Oncle DVD has some interlacing problems at the chapter stops, and M Hulot's transfer is good but not great. I hope those two discs get redone someday, as the Playtime package is a wonder and the Trafic package (excepting the transfer which I have yet to see in motion) has great extras.

I dunno, i think keeping "Playtime" for last might be a good idea. I love Tati and Hulot, but I found "Trafic" a little tired, a little reductive, a fine film mind you, but a little disappointing considering what an accomplishment "Playtime" was. Perhaps I was expecting the elevation i feel watching "Playtime", but "Trafic" simply didn't make me laugh as much as his other films.

However, it was a few years ago that I saw (haven't seen the new criterion, but will be picking it up for completion's sake), so I may look at it from a somewhat wiser perspective, especially considering how frustrating life on the grid can be.

But by all means, do begin with "Holiday." Pure pleasure. The wind gags kept me in stitches.

Picked up both Holiday and Vampyr at my University library this afternoon. They pretty much have the entire collection, so I find myself saving my money unless its something I must have for my collection. Man I was really surprised at how poor the booklet in M. Hulot Holiday was, one of the smallest ones I have seen, 3 pages.

My favorite Tati. Blew me away. I agree that it's his most bitter film. With each subsequent film, he effaced his actors more and more. And the automobile is the eternal symbol for what's wrong with humanity- Tati plays right into that symbol.

But in the end when Tati brings his camping car to Renoir's mechanic, who livies on Vigo's river, we're treated to Bresson's grace. All he does is move the camera from 50 ft to 25 ft of the action. God's gift to mise-en-scene.

Finally watched this last night, near the end of a summer that has not been too conducive to watching DVDs (some time spent on the road, as well as a move, which meant dismantling and re-installing the projector set-up and screen).
Tati's work is quite important to me, and it was with great anticipation that I sat down to watch it with my partner, who is also a huge admirer of the films. It has ample moments of brilliance, but on the whole it felt lifeless and a bit watered-down to me, not only in comparison to Playtime but also Mon Oncle. The latter two are filled with vivid sight gags that work perfectly well for their own sake but which also fit into a broader text of social critique. Parts of Trafic do show how the car exemplifies not what's wrong with humanity, I would argue, but what's wrong with modern social organization and modernity itself -- but I'm not sure the film on the whole does this. To try and get to a coherent structure within which the gags work, it seems like I have to reach a little too much and it feels like reading more into the film than what it confirms and enables me to do. E.g. I can ask myself whether the ivy on the house can perhaps signify the moorings of tradition or whether this is just silly.

Back to the car, Trafic does show with great insight the car's isolating and chaotic tendencies that ultimately lead to absurdity and even imprisonment. But I think the fender benders and road rage that were possible to depict in any film from this time and place are bound to look quaint to viewers in 2008, who are looking back at the film from the top of incredibly steep increases in traffic, pollution, fuel cost, and population growth. The traffic in Trafic looks positively heavenly compared to what can today be seen in places like Cairo, Jakarta, Seoul, Buenos Aires, Los Angeles, etc. ad nauseam. This in itself is not a fair criticism of the film, but I'm building up to something here. Trafic does offer a glimpse of some of the injuries and absurdity toward which the car culture was leading the world to an increasing degree in the post WW II era. But perhaps Trafic's critique might hold up better in relation to the unfathomable nightmares that have followed it if it had cast more of a critical eye on how cars operate within cities and indeed influence the human landscape. This would have meant we'd have a film that extends in an even more direct way the ideas central to Playtime, at least according to my reading of it. In Trafic, the key setting for the automobile seems to be the freeway. And in my view, what's really wrong with freeways can't be shown through what happens on freeways. The other main place in the film where the camping car is examined was in the customs office, which struck me as a long diversion.*

Another way that Trafic might have anticipated some of the realities that have come to pass in some of the cities I mentioned is by looking at the related problem of overcrowding. The problems that come from the predominance of automobile infrastructure fit hand-in-glove with those of steep population growth, even though this has been non-existent in the Western Europe of the film's setting. However, the film's subject should be considered broader than its setting. There is one key moment I noticed at the end of the film that hints at this problem (besides the obvious example of the exaggerated gridlock of the film's final shot). It's when Hulot tries to duck into a subway and is pushed physically back as an impenetrable mass of people with open umbrellas suddenly exit. So perhaps the real evil is not simply the car but overcrowding and the concomitant high level of demand for transportation in all its forms, which effects even the good forms of transit. This is being seen in the United States right now with sharply rising mass transit ridership (and Amtrak as well) which has caused a scramble to improve and expand infrastructure and service. At at the same time, fuel consumption has not dropped off as much as would be expected from these increases in the use of public transit, which means that some sectors of the population are driving more (and/or using fuel less efficiently).

I should say that I do feel unqualified to give a good critique of Trafic, having seen it only once, and it will be interesting to see how my impressions of the film change with subsequent viewings.
As for the color, it looked fine to me. The differences between the Beaver captures and how the disc actually looked were slight, but they were enough to erase the concerns I voiced earlier about the appearance of some kind of color bias. An excellent (and long overdue) release from Criterion.

*Along the lines of my comparison between the traffic in Trafic and that seen in many of the world's major cities in the years following the film: The camping car struck me as absurd, of course, but nowhere near as absurd as all the enormous RVs that I still see nearly as many of on the road as ever, despite rising fuel costs. ("Recreational vehicles," for those who might not know the term -- proponents refer to them as "a palace on wheels" and the like, and they get about 3 or 4 miles to the gallon.)

Just wondering if there was a reference to Breathless in Trafic when they are at the mechanics (the one near the end) and she talks about making her want to puke, and someone says something along the lines of what does that mean "puke". Overall I thoroughly enjoyed this Hulot film, and am hoping Criterion re-issues Hulots Holiday and Mon Oncle, possibly a future Tati box?