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Vic Pardo wrote:In the original, Matthau played a high-ranking police official or inspector or something and he was the one who did the negotiating.

Uh, no he didn't. He was a transit cop who is drawn into the hijacker's scheme because he calls in from one of the phones in the tunnel, and gives his demands directly to him. There wasn't much in the way of "negotiating" at all.

Jerry Stiller was in the original as well. Apparently George Costanza's Dad was a cop in the 70's

Again, a perfectly fine '70s film that hasn't aged one bit ready for a tiresome uninspired rehash. Trailer and previews look awful, and despite the not-so-harsh reception it received in some quarters, I'm not gonna spend a dime on this one.

oldsheperd wrote:Jerry Stiller was in the original as well. Apparently George Costanza's Dad was a cop in the 70's

And he was an excellent cop! Actually everyone in the original was great.

Something I expect (and fear) regarding this new film is the complete white-washing of both the NYC subway system and the "New York" character that oozes out of every frame of the original film. Granted, "New York" character has largely ceased to exist for the past decade so I shouldn't expect much from that front, but knowing that they will probably completely botch the subway system will be a major disappointment.

(full disclosure: I used to ride the 456 trains downtown to Union Square every day, and my favorite part of the 70s original was seeing those stations from a bygone era).

Antoine Doinel wrote:

Vic Pardo wrote:In the original, Matthau played a high-ranking police official or inspector or something and he was the one who did the negotiating.

Uh, no he didn't. He was a transit cop who is drawn into the hijacker's scheme because he calls in from one of the phones in the tunnel, and gives his demands directly to him. There wasn't much in the way of "negotiating" at all.

Yeah, but he's still a cop and not a transit employee. Besides, I haven't seen it in about 33 years, so cut me some slack 8-[ .

Vic Pardo wrote:

Antoine Doinel wrote:

Vic Pardo wrote:In the original, Matthau played a high-ranking police official or inspector or something and he was the one who did the negotiating.

Uh, no he didn't. He was a transit cop who is drawn into the hijacker's scheme because he calls in from one of the phones in the tunnel, and gives his demands directly to him. There wasn't much in the way of "negotiating" at all.

Yeah, but he's still a cop and not a transit employee. Besides, I haven't seen it in about 33 years, so cut me some slack

Perhaps you should revisit it. The cop is a transit employee (he spents the beginning of the film giving a tour of the facilities to some Japanese businessmen), and a major part of the film is his trying to untangle the red tape as he moves the call/demands from his transit center to the ranks of the police department and then to the mayor.

Antoine Doinel wrote:Perhaps you should revisit it. The cop is a transit employee (he spents the beginning of the film giving a tour of the facilities to some Japanese businessmen), and a major part of the film is his trying to untangle the red tape as he moves the call/demands from his transit center to the ranks of the police department and then to the mayor.

If I'm remembering this correctly, at the time the film was made the transit police was under a whole separate bureaucracy from the regular NYPD, and since the film works so hard to accurately reflect the city's government structure, that's probably why it worked out.

But, yes, you should definitely see the film again - it's dated, but in a good way (I saw it for the first time about six months ago).

A. O. Scott is impressed.

Antoine Doinel wrote:

Vic Pardo wrote:

Antoine Doinel wrote: Uh, no he didn't. He was a transit cop who is drawn into the hijacker's scheme because he calls in from one of the phones in the tunnel, and gives his demands directly to him. There wasn't much in the way of "negotiating" at all.

Yeah, but he's still a cop and not a transit employee. Besides, I haven't seen it in about 33 years, so cut me some slack

Perhaps you should revisit it. The cop is a transit employee (he spents the beginning of the film giving a tour of the facilities to some Japanese businessmen), and a major part of the film is his trying to untangle the red tape as he moves the call/demands from his transit center to the ranks of the police department and then to the mayor.

Right you are. My memory's been jogged (ouch!) and I stand corrected.

Still, the idea in the current version of a train dispatcher calling the shots in dealing with a hostage taker and extortionist is just too ridiculous. You know what would happen to such a civil servant in Bloomberg's and Commissioner Kelly's New York, if he even tried such a stunt?

Once again, the Daily News steps up with some of the most cogent film criticism around:

Heck, the bandits might not even make it onto the platform of the Pelham Bay Park station, said Bronx resident Angella Rojas, 46.

"That token clerk at the booth is mean and angry. He won't even give you change for the machine," she said. "That man could take out all four bad guys with his glare. Seriously!"

Gilleran said kidnappers would never be able to seize control of the lead car like they do in the movie.

"The lesson we learned in 9/11 is that we never open that cab. Never," he said. "I may not be Denzel Washington, but I can assure riders there is no way I'm letting my train get hijacked."

Not every straphanger was as confident in the prowess of subway personnel.

"They wouldn't stand a chance against a villain like that - especially if that villain was John Travolta," said Albert Santiago, 33, who works in security.

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:Once again, the Daily News steps up with some of the most cogent film criticism around:

Heck, the bandits might not even make it onto the platform of the Pelham Bay Park station, said Bronx resident Angella Rojas, 46.

"That token clerk at the booth is mean and angry. He won't even give you change for the machine," she said. "That man could take out all four bad guys with his glare. Seriously!"

They also might run into ME! That's my damn neighborhood!

Antoine Doinel wrote:

Vic Pardo wrote:

Antoine Doinel wrote: Uh, no he didn't. He was a transit cop who is drawn into the hijacker's scheme because he calls in from one of the phones in the tunnel, and gives his demands directly to him. There wasn't much in the way of "negotiating" at all.

Yeah, but he's still a cop and not a transit employee. Besides, I haven't seen it in about 33 years, so cut me some slack

Perhaps you should revisit it. The cop is a transit employee (he spents the beginning of the film giving a tour of the facilities to some Japanese businessmen), and a major part of the film is his trying to untangle the red tape as he moves the call/demands from his transit center to the ranks of the police department and then to the mayor.

Okay, I watched the original again. Matthau's a police lieutenant at the Transit Police command center when the hostage demand comes in. (And, yes, he is a hostage negotiator here.) He's not really that far up from being a train dispatcher. And there's no way the police commissioner would have allowed such a low-level officer to continue the communications with the hostage taker. The police commissioner, eager to prevail in a turf battle, would have sent his deputy or someone in there to take over, probably with disastrous results.

But I was more willing to suspend my disbelief back in 1975 (when I first/last saw it) because the city's bureaucracy was crumbling and one could believe that a certain amount of lack of organization would leave someone like Garber (Matthau) in charge.

Still, the basic premise struck me as silly then and silly now. And I can't see how the remake could even remotely improve on it.

Vic Pardo wrote:Still, the basic premise struck me as silly then and silly now. And I can't see how the remake could even remotely improve on it.

Without necessarily defending the premise in either version, I'll at least mention that the only time in the remake that the Garber character is "calling the shots" is during the initial contact, before the police arrive. After that, he's being supervised or fed answers by the negotiator (Turturro), who eventually takes over communications.

Cosmic Bus wrote:

Vic Pardo wrote:Still, the basic premise struck me as silly then and silly now. And I can't see how the remake could even remotely improve on it.

Without necessarily defending the premise in either version, I'll at least mention that the only time in the remake that the Garber character is "calling the shots" is during the initial contact, before the police arrive. After that, he's being supervised or fed answers by the negotiator (Turturro), who eventually takes over communications.

That's an important piece of info. Thank you. It means I have less of a basis for my initial complaint. My resistance to the remake is getting chipped away. :-k