Ponyo (Hayao Miyazaki, 2008)

[Saturnome]

I think I know what you mean by naive with Panda Kopanda, but it doesn't exactly mean bad to me - more like relaxing with a bit of silliness. I'm looking foward to something a bit like Totoro but more childish, where's there's no danger at all even when it looks dangerous. The press seems mostly to treat this as a let down, but I don't know... I'll see, I'm really looking foward to it.

I sincerely hope this get released big enough to get around here, I've only seen traditional 2D animation on the big screen twice in my life: the first time I only remember my mother opening the car's door in the parking, and the second was... Pokemon, the movie. Sure, there's The Princess and the Frog coming ...

[Michael Kerpan]

The Panda kopanda films were certainly fun to see a couple of times -- but don't strike me as very re-watchable (for adults or older kids), They seemed aimed at 4-5 year olds -- while Totoro was aimed at 4-100 year olds and thus is close to infinitely re-watchable).

[Antoine Doinel]

North American trailer.

[Vic Pardo]

I remember hearing Toshio Okada, the producer of WINGS OF HONNEAMISE, speaking at an anime convention (way back in 1994) and he described how Miyazaki tried to lure his staff away from HONNEAMISE to go work on whatever Miyazaki was working on at the time (LAPUTA or TOTORO, depending on what stage HONNEAMISE, which came out in between those two films, was at in its long production history). Okada, still embittered, called Miyazaki "the dark side of Japanese animation."

I love Miyazaki's brilliant streak of masterpieces from NAUSICAA to MONONOKE, but was less enthused about SPIRITED AWAY or HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE. And I've seen all of Miyazaki's films, from CASTLE OF CAGLIOSTRO to HOWL'S, on the big screen. What I've seen of PONYO doesn't excite me. But then, neither Kon's PAPRIKA nor Oshii's THE SKY CRAWLERS did much for me, either, and I'm a huge fan of their earlier work as well. And even the last two Pokemon movies, nos. 10 and 11, disappointed, after a wonderful streak of great Pokemon movies from #6 to #9. Is it me or is anime on an inexorable decline?

[Saturnome]

I didn't knew there was anything worthwhile in the Pokémon movies?
I remember bringing my father to see the first film in a movie theater (I was quite depth into the Pokémon craze back then, playing Pokémon Snap to death). We both agreed it was bad, but certainly for different reasons. This also have been my only anime film until three years ago I think.

For some reasons the new North American trailer of Ponyo looks more action-packed and less childish than anything I've seen before of the film. Not really surprising.

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

Pokemon Snap was great. Actually, the games are still great, but the anime was always a bit of a drag.

As for the action packed Ponyo, it's like all of the Miyazaki films. It isn't so much as action packed as it is full of adventure. I've seen it already and can say that it can please adults, but small kids will get a major kick out of it (especially the beautiful opening credit sequence).

Still, it's an excellent film and an other great piece of animation from Miyazaki. I would gladly pay money to watch this again. Well, only if it's subtitled. I don't want to hear Tina Fey and Matt Damon.

[Svevan]

The issue of dubbing on Miyazaki's films is very interesting to me, as I've seen many of his movies both ways - the dub track in theatres or at home with my young nephew, the Japanese/subtitled track any other time. Though there are occasionally some problems fitting the words into the onscreen action (or changing sound effects and plot mechanics, a different problem and something documented I think at Ghibli Wiki), the famous voice actors are uniformly excellent. I know many complained about Billy Crystal in Howl's Moving Castle, but I found his performance delightful; similarly, when reading the Nausicaa graphic novel I can't help but hear Patrick Stewart's voice when reading Lord Yupa's lines. Jonathan Rosenbaum has taken a hard line on this in the past, saying he hasn't actually seen the films until he's heard the original Japanese audio, but he nonetheless is willing to go to the theatre to see the dubbed version out of necessity, rather than boycott it altogether.

Of course, I believe the Japanese tracks are authoritative considering Miyazaki's tight level of control, but the people at Disney in charge of the most recent dub tracks do a fine job, and for what they are I don't think they should be altogether dismissed. I for one am thankful that I was able to share Spirited Away and Nausicaa with my 5 year old nephew, if nothing else.

[jojo]

These Pokemon references are certainly out of left field.

I actually quite liked Sky Crawlers. Very Antonioni-esque, which isn't a bad thing in my book. In fact, I would not be surprised if, after watching Ponyo, I still end up liking SC more.

As for Miyazaki's run of films from Nausicaa to Mononoke, the appeal of Laputa has always eluded me. I mean, I own the movie on DVD and like it, but I just don't see how it's any different from 500 other action-adventure anime out there. It doesn't do anything particularly different that I see. And Nausicaa, while brilliant at times, seems like a big, unwieldy work that still somehow manages to feel incomplete (especially with the knowledge that the manga has much more content and a different "message"). But then again, I felt Akira worked despite only containing 1/4 of the content in the 6 volume manga series so it's not like I have a problem with movies compressing longer source material.

Still, like I said in the anime thread, I do feel like anime TV series do much more exciting amd innovative stuff-- both in narrative and visuals-- than anime movies do. Generally, I have never managed to work up the excitement for the anime film industry like I do for anime TV/mini-series, despite the amount of crap that's out there in the latter case.

[feckless boy]

As far as I'm concerned, the best new anime director is Masaki Yuaasa, whose Mind Game is the best anime feature in years and who also has a few great TV series up his sleeve (one still airing, Kaiba).

Have to agree with you on Masaki Yuaasa. Haven't seen all of Kemonozume yet, but Mind Game and especially Kaiba are exceptional.

[Vic Pardo]

Since my earlier post, I've watched the Japanese-language version of PONYO on DVD and was not impressed at all. Too many unexplained abstract elements and a plot that takes way too much from "The Little Mermaid." I'll reserve final judgment until I see the English-dubbed version on the big screen, which may fill in some of the unexplained gaps and which I'm due to see next week.

[manicsounds]

On the 'unexplained stuff',

That's one thing I really don't like that Disney has done to some of the past Ghibli releases, adding lines that didn't exist in the Japanese version. I don't think your judgement would really be different by viewing another language version, unless they seriously alter the dialogue and story [like say "What's Up Tiger Lily"]

[Sanjuro]

I thought the 'unexplained stuff' fitted with Miyazaki's vision of a movie from a five-year olds point of view. Unlike Chihiro who at around 13 or so has to (in Miyazaki's opinion) start making decisions for herself, the joy of being a five year old is to experience the fun things in life while the grown-ups sort out all the complex stuff behind the scenes.

Or did you mean something else by 'unexplained stuff'? Not sure how you'd 'explain' any more without altering scenes completely.

[Vic Pardo]

I thought the 'unexplained stuff' fitted with Miyazaki's vision of a movie from a five-year olds point of view. Unlike Chihiro who at around 13 or so has to (in Miyazaki's opinion) start making decisions for herself, the joy of being a five year old is to experience the fun things in life while the grown-ups sort out all the complex stuff behind the scenes.

Or did you mean something else by 'unexplained stuff'? Not sure how you'd 'explain' any more without altering scenes completely.

The opening scenes in the movie, all that stuff with the bizarre long-haired dude in the Victorian suit in his underwater complex and that tank of weird little creatures that Ponyo comes out of, are NOT presented from a five-year-old's point of view. We haven't even seen the kid protagonist yet. They're presented from the ominiscient filmmaker's point-of-view. Yet that filmmaker fails to provide the info I felt I needed to process what I was seeing. It's not that that info doesn't exist. It was simply withheld--for the entire length of the movie. And it blocked me from enjoying the movie. If the Disney version provides some narration or onscreen text or something as explanation, it might help me to process the movie better.

Miyazaki didn't withhold necessary info from the viewers in his earlier (pre-SPIRITED AWAY) movies. And he dealt with some pretty complex universes in films like NAUSICAA and MONONOKE. Even in the child's-point-of-view world of TOTORO, the viewer is provided with everything they need to process it, adults and children alike.

PONYO so adamantly refused to welcome this viewer into its world that I rejected it out-of-hand. Maybe a big screen viewing will help.
We'll see.

[Sanjuro]

The opening scenes in the movie, all that stuff with the bizarre long-haired dude in the Victorian suit in his underwater complex and that tank of weird little creatures that Ponyo comes out of, are NOT presented from a five-year-old's point of view.

I meant Ponyo. She's about 5 years old (in goldfish terms) and witnesses the entire opening sequence.

[Vic Pardo]

I've now seen the English dub. It's a bit of an improvement over the Japanese-language version because the little boy doing the voice of Sosuke, the main character, in English is not as annoying as the Japanese voice actor, who sounded way too mature for the character and hence served to distance me from him. The American voice actor captures the awe-inspired way a five-year-old, even a precocious one, would react. The girl who does Ponyo is good, too. As are all the "celeb" voices, esp. the old ladies (Betty White, Cloris Leachman, Lily Tomlin).

However, it's still a children's film with little room for access by adults. Unlike TOTORO and KIKI, for instance, where everyone is welcomed into those worlds. This one has too many elements that kids will embrace but that should give adults pause. E.g. the seemingly indifferent reaction by the townsfolk to a horrible catastrophe that occurs in the last third of the film. Massive destruction and possible mass death (never indicated, though) and everyone acts like it's just a grand adventure. Plus, the mom behaves a tad irresponsibly with her son, the protagonist, at times. That reckless driving, for instance. What anime does she think she's in, INITIAL D?

I never felt involved, emotionally or otherwise. And I never understood the basic premise behind who or what Ponyo is and why her father lives as he does. That should have been explained and it isn't.

The only major change I could discern between the Japanese version and the English dub is that the boy no longer calls his mother "Lisa," but actually calls her "Mom." Which is an improvement, if you ask me.

[Anthony Thorne]

I like the film a lot and found the 'unexplained abstract elements' part of its charm. Do we really need a backhistory for the Victorian dude who chases Ponyo and sprays water in front of him when he walks on land? He's an out-there character no matter what and I'm not sure if seeing his origin story would have added anything to my viewing of the movie. I guess others will feel different. PONYO is one of the weirder Miyazaki films, but beautifully animated and something of a grower on a second viewing. I'm not sure if I'll bother with the English dub. Love the design of the credits, too.

[wattsup32]

I saw this post over at site called "Top-law-schools.com" and I had no idea how to respond. It seems like there is no reasoning with the willfully ignorant:

Does anyone else hate Studio Ghibli films? For those unfamiliar with them, they are a Japanese film studio famous for movies like Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, and the newest one Ponyo. I absolutely HATE these movies...they are like a bad nightmare. Creepy old ladies with emphysema, heroes with turnips for heads, weird/pointless plots, and just generally awful animation.

Vote and discuss

for the record I've seen many but not all Studio Ghibli films (still not sure how that came to pass since I hated all of them except The Cat Returns), and I consider Spirited Away by far the worst of them all.

[Saturnome]

... don't?

[Cde.]

"Actually I enjoy the films of Studio Ghibli and find their oddness quite stimulating"

[manicsounds]

I saw this post over at site called "Top-law-schools.com" and I had no idea how to respond. It seems like there is no reasoning with the willfully ignorant:

Does anyone else hate Studio Ghibli films? For those unfamiliar with them, they are a Japanese film studio famous for movies like Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, and the newest one Ponyo. I absolutely HATE these movies...they are like a bad nightmare. Creepy old ladies with emphysema, heroes with turnips for heads, weird/pointless plots, and just generally awful animation.

Vote and discuss

for the record I've seen many but not all Studio Ghibli films (still not sure how that came to pass since I hated all of them except The Cat Returns), and I consider Spirited Away by far the worst of them all.

Think that belongs in the Armond White thread

[Nothing]

Armond doesn't like Ghibli? Haven't seen that.

[jojo]

Maybe it's a good idea to go into a film with lowered expectations, but I actually liked Ponyo. After reading all the "Panda Go Panda" comments here, my expectations were significantly lowered (I fell asleep watching Panda) but I just didn't see "Panda" as a valid analogy for Ponyo's feel at all. The only similarity I saw was the flood part.

I thought the film was very minimalist rather than straight out vague. The only questions that seemed unanswered was the backstory about Ponyo's mom and dad. But I didn't think the film NEEDED to explain it--it wasn't really important to the main story of Ponyo and Sosuke. The fact of the matter is that they are Ponyo's parents and they are sea-dependent beings. Their motivations are pretty clearly defined which is all that's needed.

In keeping with its minimalist nature, there's not a whole lot of dialogue in the film. You get what you need to know but many scenes are completely devoted to just watching characters doing stuff.

Anyway, the appeal for me, I think, was found in the details. I'm going to just come straight out and say I never liked Miyazaki for his plots and I'm always a little colder on his plot-driven films than his "nothing" ones. I just think other animators (and other anime directors) are better at doing plot driven stories than Miyazaki. But when Miyazaki just sits his camera there and lets his kid characters fiddle around their environments and do nothing but play around, that's where I feel he "gets" what it's like to be a kid.

And that's not like Panda Go Panda at all. Panda doesn't have that interest in details--it may "fake" short scenes of kids playing around but it's a pretty straightforward narrative that has that "So this and this and this and this happened and then it ended." type of feel. Ponyo takes a lot of time just looking at Sosuke and Ponyo playing around, and takes some pains to delineate the elemental nature of younger children in the case of Ponyo. I've heard people describe Ponyo as selfish and unlikeable, but to me she is was just acting in her non-human, volatile nature.

And I think Sosuke's the best boy character Miyazaki's ever written. He usually writes boys as one dimensional as possible (Pazu's a generic heroic boy, Ashitaka's a generic indecisive anime hero, and Asbel doesn't seem to even have much of a personality at all). Sosuke's a nice mix of sensitivity and immature masculinity. He has that sensitive "feel" for all people and things around him that Miyazaki's female characters usually have, but he's still got that boyish and immature desire to assert his masculinity from time to time. Of course, he's also shown to be still just a kid when he gets that panic attack when jumping to conclusions about the fate of his mother.

Some people complained about Lisa and her Initial D driving and her sometimes irresponsible behaviour, but I think she functions as a sort of adult parallel to Ponyo. Both are impulsive, headstrong people and are slaves to their whims rather than their reason. Miyazaki sometimes puts in adult characters who may or may not be representations of "adult" versions of his child protagonists. Dola and Sheeta come to mind.

Still, I do have problems with the film. Specifically, the final act. I thought it was a bit overblown and perhaps even a tad pompous in staging when compared to the overall feel of the earlier parts of the film. Even the big "running on the waves" set piece was more appropriate to the wandering feel of the film than the "Hey, guess what? It's time to save the world from disaster again!" which is unfortunately a distressing habit in recent Miyazaki films. Man, I thought Kiki's dirgible climax was overboard when I saw it 15 years ago, but it looks positively quaint compared to the contrivance of Ponyo's final act.

Still, it wasn't bad enough to ruin Ponyo for me.

[J Wilson]

Went with my kids to see PONYO; I enjoyed it, but consider it among the least of Miyazaki's work. My kids (7 and 4) adored it, and I guess that's as it should be. Dub was pretty well done, I thought. My main complaint would be the complete anticlimax of the "test" given to Sosuke; I was expecting a more dramatic ending, and got a damp squib instead.

[jojo]

That's a very good point about the ending, although I wanted it to be more down to earth instead of world-shatteringly dramatic. Like you, I do wish that Sosuke's "test" instilled more doubt in the viewer.

That said, I do think Ponyo is overall better than Mononoke and Howl's. And I personally enjoyed the film more than Spirited Away (which many fans think is his best but I strongly disagree, even though I think it is a good film). Ponyo isn't better than Totoro, but then again that's Miyazaki's best film, at least in my opinion.

I do feel that in general, almost all of Miyazaki's films have weak final acts (with the exception of Cagliostro). All the complaints I've heard about Totoro seem to hinge on its last act too.

[StevenJ0001]

I found the first half to be completely mesmerizing. It did seem to lose its way somewhat later on, but both the delicacy and atmosphere of the quiet domestic scenes (especially all the food-related moments!) and the phantasmagorical inventiveness of the animation early on is more than worth the price of admission.

It is a "simple" fable, but a beguiling and fascinating one, for me at least. Loved the little details, like the cataloguing of the prehistoric fish.

Can anybody who has seen both Disney-fied and original versions comment on how dramatic the script changes were? The English translation seemed off at times, as though we weren't getting the whole story.