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peerpee wrote:From the comments so far (in this thread and via PM) it seems as if issuing a *Blu-ray only* would be the most forward-thinking, less wasteful, aesthetically pleasing course of action.

"Blu-ray only" is like the worst possible course of action. Your suggestion of charging five pounds more on the list price, which ends up being four pounds or so after discounts, if not more, is generous and a standard DVD is never "useless"-- hell, let people borrow it, watch it on your other players, donate it to a library. Not everyone is convinced on Blu-ray's staying power and, again, so many people who support you here are in R1 land. Even proposing an MOC release that locks out standard definition consumers is a pretty shocking thing to hear from a label that usually gets so much right

I think Nick is suggesting that the most forward-thinking, less wasteful, aesthetically pleasing course of action is to release all future MoC Blu-ray titles in *Blu-ray only* editions, rather than in combo editions. Unless I misunderstood, I don't believe he is talking about discontinuing DVD editions for any future MoC releases.

Yes, I don't think he means no more SD as a rule! But in the case of Sunrise, a Blu-ray only release (provided the SD remains in print, of course) wouldn't be at all unreasonable...

The issue here, though, is that the SD package *is* out-of-print, hence the combo package as a solution.

Count me as another voice against bundling them together-- keep em separate. Never force the buyer-- especially in tight times like these-- to pay for something that is an extra product which he doesn't want to buy, no matter how discounted.

My wooden nickel.

souvenir wrote:I think it would be extremely admirable to issue Blu + DVD editions. Personally, Criterion's scattershot approach hasn't been pleasing to me. The trust bubble has been breached a little and I'd rather know for certain whether a title was imminent on Blu-ray instead of only announcing a DVD edition.

Great point about Criterion as the packaging (important to some) is not as good in Blu as compared to SD copies.

reno dakota wrote:

foggy eyes wrote:Yes, I don't think he means no more SD as a rule! But in the case of Sunrise, a Blu-ray only release (provided the SD remains in print, of course) wouldn't be at all unreasonable...

The issue here, though, is that the SD package *is* out-of-print, hence the combo package as a solution.

Sorry - substitute "the SD" for "an SD" in my post...

peerpee wrote:If you were faced with a DVD edition for £19.99 (£11.98 preorder at amazon) or a dual DVD and Blu-ray edition for £24.99 (£15.98 preorder at amazon), but you only had a DVD player, and hoped to get a Blu-ray player at some point in the next 4-5 years or whatever, which edition would you buy?

I think this part of this question was ignored by most of the posters. I am in this boat. I would gladly pay the extra few bucks/quid for a dual release. The BD owners in this thread don't seem to realize that the price listed above is pretty much what they are paying already with an Amazon preorder of a BD. There is not really any premium attached. Technically, this wasn't even a question directed at BD owners. I think that premium and forward thinking labels like Criterion and MoC should have been doing this all along.

The SD only release. Although maybe I'm fudging a little to even fit into your scenario - I vaguely, sorta hope to have a Blu-ray at some point, but it's not like I've started saving pennies for it.

Same here. The 11.98 preorder price for the SD has been my reason to 'try out' some releases and blind-buy them, which I probably wouldn't have done at 15.98. I also don't know when I will turn to Blu, but I don't see me doing it in the foreseeable future (despite "The Red Shoes", aaargh...). Normally I'm not a great double-dipper, i.e. I rather buy something I haven't seen than to re-buy an old favourite. And most films released on Blu so far that I am interested in I do already have on SD. In other words: I'll probably wait until Blu is common standard and the more obscure films (and for me, that doesn't include "Sunrise") also get a simultaneous (or exclusive) Blu release from most labels. But it's good to see that MoC are apparently going into that direction.

You can buy your DVD alone for about 12£.
You can buy you BR alone for about 15£.

Adding both : 27£.

Here : 16£.

I will thank MoC's combos in a few year, when I will have to upgrade cause there won't be any DVD no more.

Honestly, from my point of view, it's like 'buy one, get the other for free'.

swo17 wrote:I am still living in the dark ages of region-lockdom and as such, have never bought from MoC in the past, but if a Sunrise BD were region-free, I would buy it up in a heartbeat, gladly making it my first. If my vote is worth anything, I honestly find BD/DVD combos to be slightly annoying. I have no rational reasoning behind this, other than a aesthetic preference toward excluding things from the packaging that are useless to me. And even though, yes, I could throw away the DVD if I wanted, I'm sure the empty DVD housing left in the packaging would nag at me to no end, to the extent that I allow DVD packaging to reign over my life (which, to be honest, is probably only around 7%). The only way the addition of a DVD for someone who has made the Blu jump makes practical sense to me is for portability. But let's face it, Sunrise isn't exactly the first thing you think of when popping the kids in the station wagon for a long drive.

In retrospect, I realize that, like swo17, I have no rational reasoning behind my decision to vote for separate releases only. I would change my vote if I could figure out how to do it.

Having a combo edition, despite any concerns about aesthetics and waste, would be nice—then I could lend the DVD to a friend that doesn't have a BR player, have a backup in case something happens to my BR. And of course, if I were not yet able to play BRs but wanted to in the future (i.e., if I had read the poll question correctly), I would want the combo edition as a way of future-proofing.

tenia wrote:You can buy your DVD alone for about 12£.
You can buy you BR alone for about 15£.

Adding both : 27£.

Here : 16£.

I will thank MoC's combos in a few year, when I will have to upgrade cause there won't be any DVD no more.

Honestly, from my point of view, it's like 'buy one, get the other for free'.

I agree with this person... for some, combo's in a few years will be the best cost effective purchase they have made. I always give away the dvd's I double/triple dip to friends who have a general interest in the movies I enjoy, but not so much to purchase all the DVD's.

I'm refering to domino harvey's post... I have no close friends to borrow the discs because none of my friends who live near me don't appreciate cinéma except new Hollywood films and it's forbidden to just give your dvds to library. I Just bought a blu-ray player and even though I have Sunrise on sd, I'd really like to have the blu-ray version too, without other the sd. Besides, I don't watch dvds or blu-rays with anything else than my tv and if I have a blu-ray player, I'm also going to watch all the R2 and R0 dvds with it because the picture quality is improved even on them. The only good thing about double release I can think of is in case the blu-ray version is some how broken or lost or on loan and you have to keep a lecture or something and you need to show scenes from the movie. So, I voted no. And as for other releases than Sunrise... When I didn't have a blu-ray player I could just wait for the time when I had enough money to buy one and just didn't buy the sd version of the film if I really wanted to see it on blu. It's not like it's going to go oop as soon as it's released.

Having bought the MoC Sunrise for about £10 and sold it for about £30 a few months ago (in anticipation of the Blu release - I had a feeling) I will be very pleased to buy the dual Sunrise pack but if you only issued Blu and DVD as separate packages I would go for the Blu and try and get a player at some point in this year when I can afford it. If you did the dual pack I have to admit it would probably take me longer to commit to Blu-ray. If you want people to commit to Blu offering the dual packs might make people a bit lazy especially in our current economic climate. I know that's probably not much help but it's my two cents.

Can I ask as well - what're the plans with upgrading existing titles in the catalogue to Blu-ray? Is the goal a hand full of releases a year or only new releases and one or two pivotal/successful releases from the collection such as Sunrise, Kwaidan, F For Fake etc.?*

*Before someone should ask - no, I haven't heard these titles rumoured but are merely examples of previous good sellers that have been commented on in the forum.

I think it is a good idea to have dual releases in a transition period between standards - as this might be (depends on what happens to blu-ray, I suppose). But if I don.t remember this wrong, blu-ray seem to be in pretty much the same position as DVD once was, though it is actually easier to rent blu-ray discs that it was to rent DVDs when I left the VHS behind.

Given the choice between a DVD edition, a DVD/BR edition and a BR edition, I would buy the combo now. Later, when I get a Blu-Ray player, I will probably buy the BR edition. So it may be that something that makes sense today, business-wise, won't make sense in 3-5 years. But the you can just stop it, can't you?

At the other hand, I will probably won't buy a film I already own as a DVD as a Blu-Ray. Well, maybe some exceptions, but Sunrise is bought once and for all.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and votes -- in this thread, and privately via PM and email.

Erikht mentions an important point in that last post. A combo edition might make sense now, and for perhaps 18 months -- but maybe 2 or 3 years down the line it will look more and more redundant.

The overwhelming resonating response has been the one concerning wastage. Blu-ray owners not wanting 'useless' DVDs, and staunch DVD buyers not wanting to pay extra for a 'useless' Blu-ray.

So for these reasons and more, we're not going to pursue 'combo' editions. We're simply going to continue as we've already begun with MAD DETECTIVE and TOKYO SONATA - ie. a separate DVD edition and a separate Blu-ray edition.

btw. TOKYO SONATA 2xDVD and Blu-ray editions are out on Monday!

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Thanks for letting us contribute to your decision-making: truly the People's Boutique Label.

Anyone game for a thread 'Why won't MoC do what I want' ?

Too bad I saw this topic too late. I love the combo editions, like Disney has been releasing them. I can play blu-ray`s (with connecting my laptop to my tv), but I watch dvd`s more. So I keep buying dvd`s and untill I have a standalone blu-ray I keep watching them (obviously). I think that releasing combo can buyers make the step-up to blu-ray quicker.

peerpee wrote:A combo edition might make sense now, and for perhaps 18 months -- but maybe 2 or 3 years down the line it will look more and more redundant.

Of course, combos can be, imo, only transition formats. Cause, at some point, there will almost be no DVD no more, so... But, if you think about it, in 2-3 years, BR will be 5-6 years old.

3 years to start making combos. 6 to stop. It's pretty late when I think about it.

Like if there were VHS/DVD combos until 4 years ago.

Like a casette/CD combo. Remember those?

tenia wrote:

peerpee wrote:A combo edition might make sense now, and for perhaps 18 months -- but maybe 2 or 3 years down the line it will look more and more redundant.

Of course, combos can be, imo, only transition formats. Cause, at some point, there will almost be no DVD no more...

Like if there were VHS/DVD combos until 4 years ago.

I don't think the VHS/DVD - or cassette/CD - analogies quite work as in this case it's far more likely that another "format" (downloads) will replace the existing one of DVDs.

I see Blu-ray as more like Super Audio CDs which have sold quite well due to the ability to combine SACD and CD on different layers of the same disc. At least that's the case in the classical music market (though some labels still choose to make two different versions); in the shop where I worked many standard CD customers greatly appreciated the ability to get a virtually free SACD edition they would hear when they upgraded their players. It's a pity DVD and Blu-ray versions can't also be accommodated on the same disc, which would keep costs down, but I know it's technically impossible, at least now.

Jonathan S wrote:It's a pity DVD and Blu-ray versions can't also be accommodated on the same disc, which would keep costs down, but I know it's technically impossible, at least now.

There have been different "prototypes" of hybrid DVD/Blu-ray discs. I think this is the most recent. Main problems are reliablity/compatibility (I don't believe that they will play on 99% of existing players), price and the fact that there is only one Blu-ray layer. And I think that such discs are pointless.

yeah I don't see myself buying a disk which is a single layer DVD combined with a single layer bluray, seems to defeat the purpose of both.