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Finally put in my pledge! What a remarkable project.

MichaelB wrote:

EddieLarkin wrote:A Private Collection is one of the Argo shorts right? Presumably it will be the shorter version that appears in the set? Or do the BBFC make exceptions for unsimulated beastiality if it's non-pornographic?

There is no chance of the Oberhausen version being featured intact on any UK release. The footage of the dog falls squarely within the current legal definition of "extreme pornography", so the BBFC will have no choice but to cut it - and even if the Video Recordings Act wasn't an issue, I suspect Arrow would want to err on the side of caution.

It's worth noting that the footage was pixilated to the point of incomprehensibility in the German release - again, for legal reasons.

And it is most definitely pornographic -please don't click on this description if you're in any way squeamish!

Spoiler

We're talking full-on penetrative sex between a large dog and a woman, culminating in a clearly genuine canine cumshot, filmed in such a way that leaves absolutely nothing to the imagination.

Didn't the BBFC pass some silent French Bestiality (The Good Old Naughty Days) UNCUT?

fatboyslim142 wrote:Didn't the BBFC pass some silent French Bestiality (The Good Old Naughty Days) UNCUT?

No. That film was shown under club conditions with a local authority-imposed R18 certificate - it's never been passed by the BBFC. Also, if I remember rightly, the bestiality in that film is extremely mild in comparison - I don't know what the legal test for "bestiality" is, but we're talking tongues, not sexual organs. (Even if I misremember some details, it's certainly nowhere near as graphic as the footage that Borowczyk repurposed!).

So if A Private Collection gets an HD upgrade - which, happily, is looking quite likely the way things are going now (it's second on the priority list) - it'll definitely be the regular cut. That said, it's very likely that the other substitute shots (minus the dog) will be featured somewhere in the extras.

MichaelB wrote:

fatboyslim142 wrote:Didn't the BBFC pass some silent French Bestiality (The Good Old Naughty Days) UNCUT?

No. That film was shown under club conditions with a local authority-imposed R18 certificate - it's never been passed by the BBFC. Also, if I remember rightly, the bestiality in that film is extremely mild in comparison - I don't know what the legal test for "bestiality" is, but we're talking tongues, not sexual organs. (Even if I misremember some details, it's certainly nowhere near as graphic as the footage that Borowczyk repurposed!).

So if A Private Collection gets an HD upgrade - which, happily, is looking quite likely the way things are going now (it's second on the priority list) - it'll definitely be the regular cut. That said, it's very likely that the other substitute shots (minus the dog) will be featured somewhere in the extras.

Then is this UNCUT WITH BESTIALITY? http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classifie ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I said, it depends on how you define "bestiality" - as I recall it, there's no sexual penetration either by or of the dog. So it may well be the case that the BBFC and Westminster Council decided that it just slipped under the wire in a way that Borowczyk's dog footage definitely wouldn't.

It's also worth noting that the current definition of "extreme pornography" was laid down in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008, passed five years after The Good Old Naughty Days was screened in the UK. You've goaded me into looking up the current test, and it's essentially "intercourse or oral sex with an animal" which is "pornographic", "explicit" and "real, or appears to be real" - and as of January 2009 you're not even allowed to possess such footage in the UK, let alone distribute it commercially. And since there's absolutely no doubt that the dog shot in the Oberhausen cut of Une Collection Particulière meets all those tests, it's a complete non-starter.

MichaelB wrote:As I said, it depends on how you define "bestiality" - as I recall it, there's no sexual penetration either by or of the dog. So it may well be the case that the BBFC and Westminster Council decided that it just slipped under the wire in a way that Borowczyk's dog footage definitely wouldn't.

It's also worth noting that the current definition of "extreme pornography" was laid down in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008, passed five years after The Good Old Naughty Days was screened in the UK. You've goaded me into looking up the current test, and it's essentially "intercourse or oral sex with an animal" which is "pornographic", "explicit" and "real, or appears to be real" - and as of January 2009 you're not even allowed to possess such footage in the UK, let alone distribute it commercially. And since there's absolutely no doubt that the dog shot in the Oberhausen cut of Une Collection Particulière meets all those tests, it's a complete non-starter.

I assume that the Full UNCUT version will be restored so it can be released by someone other than Arrow.

Increased my pledge from £60 to £90. Good luck guys.

MichaelB wrote:And since there's absolutely no doubt that the dog shot in the Oberhausen cut of Une Collection Particulière meets all those tests, it's a complete non-starter.

Stating uncategorically that there will be no bestiality footage in this set is not exactly the best way to get a rush of new pledges over the next few days. I'm not saying it should or even can be included, but leave a little mystery out there, why dontcha.

fatboyslim142 wrote:I assume that the Full UNCUT version will be restored so it can be released by someone other than Arrow.

Just to be clear, this isn't a case of a "Full UNCUT version" and a censored version - it's a case of two distinct versions of the film, each signed off by Borowczyk himself. The Oberhausen cut has some extra material, and more revealing alternative takes of some of the existing footage, but it doesn't have André Pieyre de Mandiargues' narration, and it's clearly a less "complete" film than the more polished shorter cut.

But, as I said, it's very very likely that all of this footage (minus the dog) will be featured on the Blu-ray somewhere. In fact, it might be quite fun to do a split-screen comparison of the alternative takes along the lines of the Black Sabbath featurette.

Just under three days left now, and the project has kicked in the hour counter (presently 70 hours to go). It looks like almost £1,000 was raised in just the last day, but there's still a ways to go if all these shorts are going to be restored. (I wish this most recent announcement had come sooner.)

Five hours to raise £5,000 to restore five short films. Let's do this! And by "do" I mean spam all of your social media friends/followers!

Without even getting any new backers, if each contributor raised their pledge by just £11, that would put the project over the goal.

Is there anyway to back 60 twice and get two sets?

Probably, if you create another account.

jindianajonz wrote:Is there anyway to back 60 twice and get two sets?

These people claim that Kickstarter's advice is to simply open a second account linked to the same credit card.

Which sounds perfectly plausible to me - and if they say it's OK with them, I'm hardly about to stand in their way!

Works for me. Just got myself a backup set!

Well, £26,000 (and £3,500 over the past four days) is still pretty impressive. Though I contend that we could have gotten the full £30,000 if there had been more than four days notice of the revised goal.

I agree. That last minute push shows the interest is there. I wonder if Arrow could prolong the campaign, even if just a week, to make a final push to 30K?

We decided from the moment that it was clear that we'd meet the original target to stick to the original deadline - restoring Goto was always the major raison d'être of this project, and for obvious reasons we'd like to get started on that as soon as possible.

But, as promised, every penny of the £26,000 will be spent on restoring the films currently languishing in standard-definition video hell - which will most probably include a handful of shorts as well as Goto: exactly how many will depend on what state the 35mm materials are in and other variables currently beyond our control.

I know a lot of people here contributed to this, so THANK YOU. This project was never just about restoring a single feature film, it's about the rehabilitation of an entire reputation. It has been virtually impossible to see good-quality copies of the vast majority of Walerian Borowczyk's pre-1975 work for literally decades, and since these are the films in which he lays claim to being one of Europe's most innovative and adventurous filmmakers, their absence has been even more damaging.

With a major London retrospective (May), the release of the Arrow Blu-ray/DVD box set (provisionally June) and the publication of a new book on his work (a few months later) and plenty of media interest already, he's likely to have a very different profile by the end of 2014. And if you contributed to the Kickstarter campaign, you'll have helped make this happen. So thank you again - and we'll keep you fully updated.

Thanks for all the work you put into this, Michael! I can't wait for the set to arrive!

One question though: You said the set will provisionally be out in June, but Kickstarter estimated a delivery of May. Has this shifted back a month? Not that I'm complaining if it has; I'd much rather wait a month and get a better quality release rather than see it rushed.

jindianajonz wrote:One question though: You said the set will provisionally be out in June, but Kickstarter estimated a delivery of May. Has this shifted back a month? Not that I'm complaining if it has; I'd much rather wait a month and get a better quality release rather than see it rushed.

We added an extra month to allow time to restore the shorts - which we'll need, since it's now certain that we'll be able to upgrade two or three, if not more (depending on how things go with Goto - every penny saved on that project is a penny added to the shorts restoration budget).

But this will emphatically not be a Manos: The Hands of Fate situation: everyone on this project knows exactly what they're doing, and we've all worked on plenty of similar things in the past, and often together (I've yet to work on a BD/DVD production that hasn't involved James White, and David Mackenzie has authored two of my projects - and of course David has also worked extensively with Daniel Bird on things like Mondo Vision's Żuławski discs). So everything should proceed pretty smoothly from now on.

Thanks above all to Michael who (it's probably safe to say) pledged by far the most out of everyone here.

Rather selfishly, I just hope that when it comes down to it, if Arrow end up just a few thousand short of the cost to restore the last short or two, they'll realize that the demand is there and go ahead with it.

My credit card has just been successfully charged, after a slightly scary situation a week ago when I thought I'd been charged twice for something expensive - which would have had serious side-effects re the Kickstarter campaign! But it was all sorted out in time.

Kudos, Michael and the Arrow team. I have just the faintest idea of what I've gotten into by pledging. This is not a director I have any familiarity with. But I hope we see more projects like this from our other favorite labels in the near future. Surely MoC and others are sitting on the rights to films that don't make commercial sense to restore and release, but maybe something like this could give life to projects that otherwise wouldn't get off the ground. And of course, can't wait for the set itself. Surely it will be one of the best releases of the year!

I still can't quite believe this is finally happening. When I first tried to get a Borowczyk project off the ground in 2008 as the logical successor to the Quay Brothers (2006) and Jan Svankmajer (2007) collections, I didn't envisage anything more extensive than a two-disc survey of the shorts - obviously on DVD only. (And even that was more ambitious than Cult Epics' announced but never realised DVD collection of just seven shorts!).

It was obviously frustrating at the time that it never achieved lift-off, but good things most definitely come to those who wait - and there was no chance at all of the BFI funding anything this extensive, as it's completely outside their remit.

In fact, just to answer swo17's kind comments, I might have pledged the most of any individual Kickstarter backers, but I'm only in the smallest foothills of what Arrow has committed to - you probably now have a better idea of the costs involved in restoring two features and nine shorts on their own, quite aside from all the other expenses involved (extras, BBFC, authoring, subtitling, packaging, manufacturing, massive booklet/book, etc.). From their perspective, it's clearly one of the riskiest projects they've ever taken on, so it's thrilling to see so much goodwill already.

Oh, and we've posted an official thank-you on the Kickstarter site.