criterionforum.org

Rayon Vert wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:04 pm For me it is worse than Batman, and the first two have a lot of charm. Batman is flawed but it's Prince alone in the studio like most of his 80s stuff - when he started the live band sound it wasn't as good, especially with the rap-heavy stuff in 1991. Just the sound has a kind of metallic glossy sheen that's a putoff. The love symbol album is made in the same way but the songs are better and the ambition pulls it through.

Tony T's appearances during this era haven't aged well, as Prince was notoriously suspicious of rap as a genre, overall (see also: The Black Album being pulled at the last minute), but I always equated the sheen with a majority of the tracks being cut in Japan during a run of dates for preparation of the following tour.

The Batman album still works well for me, but I also grew up in that lean period of seeing Batman in theaters and anxiously awaiting the VHS release that seemed like a lifetime afterwards, recreating the film in my mind like a read-along storybook. Nowadays, I see it more as an homage to Sly Stone, if Sly ever was to create a whole LP for a major soon-to-be franchise release, but only had three of those songs actually appear in the film, as Prince did (& also had a Fairlight at his disposal). But whatever anyone says, "200 Balloons" absolutely smokes, especially as it turned up later on the WB-contractually fulfilling B-Sides comp.

Diamonds & Pearls was also my most-played Prince record, the one that I knew back-to-front, and I'm glad that the title track & "Money Don't Matter 2 Night" (with a video directed by Spike Lee) became staples in his live set for years to come. Hopefully the 30+ outtakes just won't be Tony T riffing for about an hour, but we'll see? All of the videos of this era were probably some of his best, and yes, I'm also including "Batdance".

beamish14 wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:01 pm

zedz wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:58 pm

Rayon Vert wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 5:53 pm Diamonds and Pearls from 1991 is getting a remastered, deluxe and super deluxe release in October.

7 CDs (!) is probably too much for me given it's not my favorite album. Not crazy about this and Graffiti Bridge, but the love symbol album in 1992 saw him get his groove back, to an extent, and I love/really like the rest of what he put out in the mid-to-late 90s, before the release of the 1999 comeback album which was anything but. D&P is somewhat similar as a calculated commercial pleaser, missing inspiration.

Maybe his worst album up to that point (and certainly since the self-titled one), but I'm sure there's at least one masterpiece album hidden among the offcuts.

Worse than Batman or his first two records?

The first two records are a talented young guy finding his feet and occasionally striking gold. Batman and Graffiti Bridge are half-great messes which occasionally dip into the horrendous but are Prince to the core. Diamonds and Pearls is Prince for the first time chasing trends and turning his back on his quirky muse. There are a few good tracks (e.g. 'Gett Off', which wasn't even meant to be on the album) but it's a skydive from where he was a few years before. That godawful title track: the sound of high-fructose corn syrup being poured in your ears and down your throat.

I had no idea this was an unpopular opinion, but I really like his self-titled sophomore album. It’s certainly inconsistent, but has a few surprisingly strong tracks. “It’s Gonna Be Lonely” in particular builds to an impressive finish, with his eclectic vocal pronunciations at their most cathartic. I love it

I just started digging more into that album as well very recently. A long time ago I I only used to listen to Dirty Mind on up, but there's a lot to enjoy (and for me, sorta discover in the sense that it's not fully implanted in my brain) in that one. The first one has fun stuff too.

Even though Prince is a straighter R&B/soul record, it's full of incongruous rock elements like the guitar solos. Wild.

That second album is really good, it just gets overlooked because the work that followed was a ridiculous quantum leap for pop music. (The debut For You is merely okay - excellent single in "Soft and Wet" and the brief title track was a nice display of his skills in the studio, but otherwise somewhat forgettable.)

Diamonds and Pearls is not a great album but it's still a good one. The use of Tony M. (who BTW can be heard in the opening credits for Hoop Dreams - he donated that track to the film) does feel like Prince at best trying to catch up with a vital new music in hip-hop, at worst trying to be trendy to sell records. But he stuck with it and by The Gold Experience, when he took on the raps himself, he successfully integrated hip-hop into his music. It was ultimately a fruitful endeavor and arguably a necessary one because musically he was kind of spinning his wheels just prior to Diamonds and Pearls, as fine as the music in Batman and Graffiti Bridge could be. One welcome element of Diamonds and Pearls was that Prince decided to record with a real band, something he hadn't done very much in a long while. It was a new recording process that opened up his music even more, and while Tony M. was lacking, he had a pretty large ensemble with some amazing musicians, particularly Michael Bland.

And I'll go to the mat for the title track - this was a contemporary R&B ballad done as good as could be. It's not my favorite Prince, but he does that once in awhile where he typically shows he can do the kind of hits you hear from, say, a respectable artist like Luther Vandross or Sade, and then goes on to show that he can do a whole lot more. So you get "Slow Love" AND "If I Was Your Girlfriend," and you get "Diamonds and Pearls" and "Cream."

Truth be told, the three NPG albums got better with each one - "Symbol" was better than this and The Gold Experience was THE great Prince and the New Power Generation album - but this was the biggest-selling one of the three, not to mention one of his biggest-selling ever, so it's no surprise it's getting a box set.

Point:

hearthesilence wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:05 am this was a contemporary R&B ballad done as good as could be.

Counterpoint:

rosie gaines wrote: D to the I to the A to the M
O to the N to the D to the pearls of love

appalling synth chimes wrote: bing bong
bing bong

Oh please, a descending four-note synth chime? That's like a stock fill in '80s and '90s pop music and pretty minimal by pop standards. As for Rosie's testifying, it's nothing lyrically, but it's also functional - very common in pop to build a vocal part from basic syllables, letters and simple nonsense. These are like the least offensive musical elements you can find in an early '90s pop song, far less than what I'd find in plenty of Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston records.

When you get down to the “this pap isn’t as bad as Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey pap” level, I think you should stop digging. 80s Prince wouldn’t even be in that conversation.

Whatever, point is, even for a “lesser” Prince album, there’s plenty of merit that outweighs the faults.

pianocrash wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:57 pm Nowadays, I see it more as an homage to Sly Stone, if Sly ever was to create a whole LP for a major soon-to-be franchise release, but only had three of those songs actually appear in the film, as Prince did (& also had a Fairlight at his disposal).

You could call a great part of his catalog an homage to Sly! He often quotes him ("Ooh-we-sha-sha-coo-coo-yeah"). Also Sex in the Summer, a stellar track from the 90s. Strong Sly vibes also on "We Gets Up" on the same album.

For those on the east coast, Spike Lee is throwing his Michael Jackson block party again, this time with some Prince tunes. I’ve never been to his prior block parties, but his friend, DJ Spinna is fantastic, judging by the sound system he uses for Spike’s stoop sales.

bearcuborg wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:11 pm For those on the east coast, Spike Lee is throwing his Michael Jackson block party again, this time with some Prince tunes. I’ve never been to his prior block parties, but his friend, DJ Spinna is fantastic, judging by the sound system he uses for Spike’s stoop sales.

Thanks. Interesting clip, including a Lee speech/intro.

Prince's official store has an amazing flash deal going on for ONE day only.

The super deluxe edition of Sign O' The Times (8 CD/1 DVD) is only $51.

The super deluxe edition of Welcome 2 America (2LP/1CD/1BR) is only $30.

Taxes and shipping apply, but still an incredible deal, roughly 2/3 off the original list price.