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I just checked that review. Honestly, his comments on the "softness" sound like he's seeing what I saw.

Svet also took a look at Dreams (sorry, too late to figure out a pun)

Edit. Svetdust and Tinsel too! (that was easy)

tenia wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:05 pm It doesn't look bad per se, but it just is a now-obsolete restoration made from a 35mm fine-grain master positive on a Spirit DataCine. These aren't aging well.

It's the contrast that looks off, like the whites and blacks have been artificially boosted.

Ah, I see. I thought you were talking rather about the texture.
Criterion was known to boost their contrast in the DVD era and I wouldnt be surprised if they also did that on some of their BD releases.

tenia wrote:Ah, I see. I thought you were talking rather about the texture.
Criterion was known to boost their contrast in the DVD era and I wouldnt be surprised if they also did that on some of their BD releases.

There’s a pervasive assumption that “black and white” means “deep rich blacks to dazzlingly pure whites”, but this may of course not have been what was originally intended.

I’ve given this example elsewhere, but when Institute Benjamenta was restored it was initially given a typically high-contrast grade, and most likely looked terrific to the untutored eye - but it definitely wasn’t what the director or their cinematographer were after, which was mostly greys and only very very occasional pure blacks and whites. Fortunately, they were (and, happily, still are) around to stamp their authority on the restoration, but how many other instances have there been of well-meaning technicians giving a grade that’s higher-contrast than the filmmakers intended? I suspect the answer may well be “quite a few”.

No DVDBeaver review yet, but a user on the Blu-ray.com forum sez they talked to the resto company and Fanny and Alexander will be "partially" restored for some scenes, which as I understand it means the color timing may shift throughout the film-- that's got to be more annoying than a consistent approach for either temperature, right?

domino harvey wrote: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:02 pm No DVDBeaver review yet, but a user on the Blu-ray.com forum sez they talked to the resto company and Fanny and Alexander will be "partially" restored for some scenes, which as I understand it means the color timing may shift throughout the film-- that's got to be more annoying than a consistent approach for either temperature, right?

Is it possible that in such a situation, someone overseeing color grading would be considering this and comparing it all in context for reference?

I'm not very sensitive to color. I remember thinking the new 4K of Playtime looked far too green to me from side-by-side caps but by itself in motion, I thought it looked great. Therefore, I agree with you that constantly comparing two different color grades as they switch back and forth would be much more alarming to even those of us who are less sensitive.

MichaelB wrote: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:40 pmThere’s a pervasive assumption that “black and white” means “deep rich blacks to dazzlingly pure whites”...

I've been listening to Michael Jackson records this past week, and when I read that, I immediately picture MJ in his deep black fedora, jacket and shoes along with his dazzling white socks, shirt and of course sparkling glove.

domino harvey wrote: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:02 pm No DVDBeaver review yet, but a user on the Blu-ray.com forum sez they talked to the resto company and Fanny and Alexander will be "partially" restored for some scenes, which as I understand it means the color timing may shift throughout the film-- that's got to be more annoying than a consistent approach for either temperature, right?

Well, the good news here is that even a partial new scan means a completely new encode, which will hopefully fix the compression issues of the earlier release.

After the Rehearsal is very tinty, yet again. The 1.66 is the same as the Taran DVD, so I've never seen it any other way.

I don't have the Tartan DVD any more, but here's a not exact frame comparison to show the color difference





This is a grungy-looking movie, though, so I'm not sure it matters as much here as it does for Cries and Whispers or the Passion of Anna

It almost reminds me of the blue-ish tint Eclair tends to give to some of their restorations. It doesn't look exactly the same than here, though, but there is a kind of redundancy in the way flesh tones vs colder elements are graded here, the 4th capture at Beaver especially.

domino harvey wrote:After the Rehearsal is very tinty, yet again. The 1.66 is the same as the Taran DVD, so I've never seen it any other way.

I don't have the Tartan DVD any more, but here's a not exact frame comparison to show the color difference





This is a grungy-looking movie, though, so I'm not sure it matters as much here as it does for Cries and Whispers or the Passion of Anna

The top one has a digital wash from using an auto white balance tool on the “gray” floor and they goosed the highlights. Look at the color separation of the rug in the two images, the color has been washed out by the digital manipulation in the top image but has tonal quality consistent with the lighting of the scene in the second image.

All These Women

I don't know if I can make myself watch this for a third time. It's so awful. Very pretty, but awful.

Yep. To anyone who hasn't seen it: no matter how bad you think it will be, it's actually worse

To further make myself the guy with bad opinions I like it and take the aesthetic fun as the soul of the ride.

domino harvey wrote: Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:56 pm After the Rehearsal is very tinty, yet again. The 1.66 is the same as the Taran DVD, so I've never seen it any other way.

I don't have the Tartan DVD any more, but here's a not exact frame comparison to show the color difference





This is a grungy-looking movie, though, so I'm not sure it matters as much here as it does for Cries and Whispers or the Passion of Anna

It's like 2-color Technicolor - all salmon and blue-green. I've never seen the film in 35mm, only on video, so I can't comment on what it has looked like in the past.

Fårö dokument @ Beaver, super excited to see this

I will say that Criterion has removed the only reason to watch All These Women-- to enjoy Bergman's lush and vivid use of color that resembles the palette found in MGM musicals-- with this restoration, so good work

EDIT: You know what, I'm going to walk this back, because doing a comparison shows this resto actually seems to have gotten it right! Mea culpa. Again, not an exact frame match, but Tartan DVD vs Criterion





Okay, so that's 1-4 on the color restos so far, I think

domino harvey wrote: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:35 pm Yep. To anyone who hasn't seen it: no matter how bad you think it will be, it's actually worse

Now I have to watch it.

ari101 wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:41 pm

domino harvey wrote: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:35 pm Yep. To anyone who hasn't seen it: no matter how bad you think it will be, it's actually worse

Now I have to watch it.

All These Women is not the worst movie ever made, just one of the least entertaining. It is insufferably arch and unfunny, albeit with stylized sets and costumes in color. The disappointment is all the more bitter because Bergman made some good-to-outstanding comedies before this. You come away with the impression that he hated himself and hated his viewers when he made this film. If forced to choose, I'd rather watch Troll 2 because at least that is fun-bad.

But we will all watch it again because it is Bergman's first film in color, and it's a spiffy new restoration. And we will feel deflated and frustrated afterward.

The best thing I can say about it is that it's mercifully short (though it will be slightly longer here now that it's no longer sped up for PAL!)

As soon as I receive the set, I will watch a double feature of The Serpent's Egg and All These Women to get the gruesome business out of the way and see which of the two is worse. Then I will be free to explore the rest of the set on its own terms, liberated.

The Serpent's Egg is far from awful. It's not very Bergman, but it is an interesting film even if it has many flaws

The Touch is a lot worse than Serpent’s Egg