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They announced Milos forman's Man on the Moon for release over the summer

I’m shocked that one wasn’t already out on Blu

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

Figures in a Landscape (1970) (DVD still available)
Slam Dance (1987) (DVD still available)

Moshé Mizrahi's Madame Rosa and Jacques Doillon's Ponette have just gone up as pre-orders for May.

JSC wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:21 pm Moshé Mizrahi's Madame Rosa and Jacques Doillon's Ponette have just gone up as pre-orders for May.

This should probably go in the Kino thread

Thanks, should've caught that. I just put it in the Kino thread.

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

Diggstown (1992) (DVD still available)

Kino back on their old shit, Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia looks like it is the old master used for the TT Blu not the 4K Arrow master that Kino advertised

I already have the excellent Arrow bluray but this is definitely disappointing for the Region A community. Let's just wait and see what Kino will end up doing. Maybe they will surprise us... Ha! I doubt it, but you never know.
I think it just goes to show you the nature of Kino. I find it quite telling that despite all the years they have been doing this and all the titles they have released as a label they still aren't as recognized and don't amount to much. I won't deny that they haven't done a lot, in terms of all the restorations they have commissioned (which other labels have used) and bringing out titles that normally wouldn't have seen the light of day (tv films like Trilogy of Terror come to mind). That being said, if a certain title is released by Kino and another label at the same time, I will always prefer or go to the other label and that says a lot. I just can't put my finger on it, but I kind of feel that they are lacking in a way and this newest development certainly doesn't help.

I guess they're really skimping on QC? Surely the most basic check any label should be doing when releasing a disc that has earlier editions is to compare them, or at least compare to screengrabs if discs cannot be sourced. The quickest way to ensure complaints and demands for an expensive replacement programme, is to release a Blu-ray with a major technically failing and then send it to DVDBeaver to show everyone! It really baffles me how not a single person in the company ran a quick check, especially when they surely knew two different masters were out there.

Same thing happened to Indicator with the Sinbad film, though in that instance there was only the one master previously released and so they had no reason to think they wouldn't receive that superior one. But something tells me there's almost no chance they'll let it happen again.

To be fair this sort of thing does happen. MoC failed to deliver the promised 4K transfer of Five Graves to Cairo, and in that instance it was Kino who kept their end of the bargain.

EddieLarkin wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:45 amI guess they're really skimping on QC? Surely the most basic check any label should be doing when releasing a disc that has earlier editions is to compare them, or at least compare to screengrabs if discs cannot be sourced.

It's a bit more complicated at times, and it's hard to know if the label skipped QC, chose to keep the technical claim because of marketing over complaints, or chose to trust the right holders' technical claim despite A/B comparisons clearly showing they shouldn't have.

In the case, for instance, of Five Graves to Cairo with MoC, it seems like Universal insisted that what they gave Eureka was a 4K something master. The issue to me is more with people at Eureka seemingly thinking this could have been the case while the master they were given looks like a battered 20 years old one and nothing like anything more recent, let alone done in 4K (or at least scanned in 4K), but this means however that people at Eureka DID check to some extent what they were given.

It's hard to know if this has been the case for Alfredo Garcia at Kino, but in any case, I'd deem the best thing would at least be to drop the technical claim if you're unsure of what you're getting, but on the other hand, how many people will realise this isn't a new 4K master ? I've seen people raving about what turned out to be a SD-upscale, so it's clearly not as if most consumers were acutely aware of these things.

However, true enough, right holders' materials are to be checked and compared no matter what because you just can't trust them 100%. Whether for Eureka then or Kino now, a simple A/B comparison allows to know if you've indeed been given a new master or something that reaaaaaally looks like this older master and not really like this new one. I've been however told that indeed, not every label does such comparisons, sadly...

EddieLarkin wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:45 amSame thing happened to Indicator with the Sinbad film, though in that instance there was only the one master previously released and so they had no reason to think they wouldn't receive that superior one.

I'm quite certain their workflow is now smooth enough that such an issue would be corrected before the discs are pressed and not after like it was for Sinbad.

andyli wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:49 amMoC failed to deliver the promised 4K transfer of Five Graves to Cairo, and in that instance it was Kino who kept their end of the bargain.

Kino delivered on this one because they were the one doing the 4K remaster, ie masters of what they were doing. Eureka was however in a technical licensee position, ie dependant on what they were given. However, when placed in the same situation of being dependant of what they're given, Kino seems to have a much looser QC.

Kino's not-surprising-to-anyone-response:

No, our master is from the 2017 4K scan MGM received from Arrow. MGM did some additional work including some color correction. Our master is better than any version previously released, the reviewer, even says "it looks excellent." Unfortunately, we're dealing with a reviewer who's been wrong dozens of times before and the not so unexpected overreaction by fans who have not even seen the disc for themselves.

Now, I can't blame them for not trusting Gary's caps (he presented their release of Fellini's Casanova with the completely wrong black levels, making it look awful and far worse than the competition, even though in reality it is easily the best disc out there), but in this case, his caps clearly are the Kino disc since they show a unique subtitling file that neither of the old TT discs or the Arrow disc shares.

So it seems that even when the truth is staring them right in the face, they simply won't accept it and actually go look at their own fucking disc. Presumably they did have the Arrow master, MGM have done some additional work to it, but then somewhere along the way the old file got used.

Kino twitter

COMING SOON!
BRAND NEW 2K MASTER!

VERA CRUZ (1954)

Good, the old Blu-ray from MGM wasn't so spectacular.

I’ve owned the MGM Blu-ray of it for a decade, but have never watched that copy, so I can’t attest to the quality. I have seen it on 35mm and it’s a tremendous amount of fun. It’s sort of like a proto-spaghetti western with its tongue in cheek humor. Another great one from a great period of Aldrich’s career.

Maltic wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:08 pm Kino twitter

COMING SOON!
BRAND NEW 2K MASTER!

VERA CRUZ (1954)

Good, the old Blu-ray from MGM wasn't so spectacular.

Wow, great and unexpected news. This movie completely slipped by me until last year, when I was looking for more Gary Cooper films, and I was disappointed that I missed out because the OOP BD was going for a pretty high price despite some fairly disappointing reviews with regards to the PQ.

EddieLarkin wrote:Kino's not-surprising-to-anyone-response.

It's up to a point any one of us could have written it.

Lights of Old Broadway (Monta Bell, 1925) starring Marion Davies coming in May.

Kino wrote:we're dealing with a reviewer who's been wrong dozens of times before and the not so unexpected overreaction by fans who have not even seen the disc for themselves.

Gerald Christie wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:42 am I just can't put my finger on it, but I kind of feel that they are lacking in a way

Tact?

In regards to advertised restoration bait-and-switch debacles, Criterion pulled the exact same thing with their Blu upgrade of The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum and to this day list the incorrect specs without (to my knowledge) addressing the discrepancy.

Their website in any case is indeed still advertising it as a new 4k digital restoration.
And for this one, Svet is one of the reviewer who was very happy with it and actually reviewed it as if a new 4k restoration (which it isn't - a mistake on his side all the more surprising that he reviewed the older SC disc).

The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum still mentions a 4K transfer. I assume it was a situation similar to Kino's Kind Hearts and Coronets where StudioCanal said they were getting the 4K transfer but supplied them with the older one. Has anybody bothered to email Criterion about that disc?

As always, mistakes happen, its that Kino is refusing to admit them. Literally all they had to post was something like "We are sorry for the mix up, MGM supplied us with the older master." and offer a refund or an option to exchange the disc for another title (equal or lesser MSRP) to anyone disappointed with the release.

In this regard, it can be hard (at least for an outsider's eye like mine) to understand why they shut down so violently the legitimate feedbacks about some of their mistakes / flawed releases but then otherwise put in place in quite a typical manner replacement programs for other flawed releases.

But I seem to recall them basically stating they're just releasing so much stuff they can't thoroughly check everything and then replace every mistake generated by such a workflow.

Regarding Katharina Blum, even the booklet seems to state the tech details of the newer restoration, which makes this even more surprising. I haven't read anyone stating they emailed Criterion about it, I'll do within the next few days.

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

Deceived (1991) (DVD) (BD is also OOP)

The KL Insider has put a moratorium on everything except release info and sales announcements on the bluray.com forum. He's gotten a little beaten up over there by a few about misrepresenting what kind of restorations have been done to some titles. It's a shame