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soundchaser wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:21 pm

Finch wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:12 pm When was the last time Criterion released a box set that wasn't compromised in one way or another? Maybe the Bergman set (colors on Cries & Whispers aside)?

Depends on how you define "compromised." The Bergman set is far and away the cleanest of the bunch, but I don't think the Fellini is all that bad given Criterion's previous insistence on not using English dubbing tracks. (And of course there are things like the World Cinema Project that are great, but you probably mean the mega sets.)

Did I miss some problem about the Varda set?

Mainly the color timing done by Ritrovata and Eclair

therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:36 pm

soundchaser wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:21 pm

Finch wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:12 pm When was the last time Criterion released a box set that wasn't compromised in one way or another? Maybe the Bergman set (colors on Cries & Whispers aside)?

Depends on how you define "compromised." The Bergman set is far and away the cleanest of the bunch, but I don't think the Fellini is all that bad given Criterion's previous insistence on not using English dubbing tracks. (And of course there are things like the World Cinema Project that are great, but you probably mean the mega sets.)

Did I miss some problem about the Varda set?

Yeah, the color timing and some unfortunate compression. As far as comprehensiveness, though, it's a-ok.

The Tati set had issues too.

feihong wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:48 pm Do you think Wong saw some of the Johnnie To movies and then developed some feeling of inadequacy about the mid-90s HK gunshot sound effects he had in his movies?

Dunno...the only Johnnie To film I've seen is BARE FOOTED KID!

Life pro-tip: don't try to convince anyone in the r/criterion subreddit that the label is less than godlike and doesn't deserve a share of the fault here.

Why are you bringing up random drama from a different website here?

It would be "random" if I were posting in a thread not specifically about the problems with this set, Criterion's marketing of it, and their place in the home video world. Please don't play backseat mod with me -- if the actual mods have an issue I'll be happy to listen to them.

I'm not playing backseat mod. You just brought the subreddit with no backstory and it just seemed random, that's all. So please don't accuse me of doing something I wasn't.

yoloswegmaster wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:58 pm I'm not playing backseat mod. You just brought the subreddit with no backstory and it just seemed random, that's all. So please don't accuse me of doing something I wasn't.

I'm not the first in this thread to comment on how Criterion fans elsewhere have reacted to this announcement, or to express dismay at the open arms with which it seems to have been received. That's the backstory, as was implied in the post itself.

soundchaser wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:41 pm

therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:36 pm

soundchaser wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:21 pm

Depends on how you define "compromised." The Bergman set is far and away the cleanest of the bunch, but I don't think the Fellini is all that bad given Criterion's previous insistence on not using English dubbing tracks. (And of course there are things like the World Cinema Project that are great, but you probably mean the mega sets.)

Did I miss some problem about the Varda set?

Yeah, the color timing and some unfortunate compression. As far as comprehensiveness, though, it's a-ok.

Oh, I guess at this point I just assume that these days most releases will have some issues with color timing, and in any giant set with that many films, odds are there will be at least a bit of an issue with compression. I think if we go into box sets looking for perfection, we're all going to be wildly disappointed and playing against probability. I mean, even the Bergman set didn't correct the Fanny and Alexander compression, and had some severe colorization issues in two significant releases, right? Was Varda really "far and away" worse?

Anyways, to the topic at hand, the r/criterion post is absolutely relevant because many of us have also mentioned other social media outlets that have exhibited similar hiveminded worshiping and ignorance of the issues of the set. If it's also happening on r/criterion (which doesn't surprise me, though I haven't been there in a while) that's a much more specialized space that I'd expect more outcry from than the "Oh I heard about WKW, I'll buy this" posts I'm seeing elsewhere, and it further cements the sad likelihood that most of us here are more isolated than we thought in our concerns, yelling into the wind.

therewillbeblus wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:04 am Oh, I guess at this point I just assume that these days most releases will have some issues with color timing, and in any giant set with that many films, odds are there will be at least a bit of an issue with compression. I think if we go into box sets looking for perfection, we're all going to be wildly disappointed and playing against probability. I mean, even the Bergman set didn't correct the Fanny and Alexander compression, and had some severe colorization issues in two significant releases, right? Was Varda really "far and away" worse?

Anyways, to the topic at hand, the r/criterion post is absolutely relevant because many of us have also mentioned other social media outlets that have exhibited similar hiveminded worshiping and ignorance of the issues of the set. If it's also happening on r/criterion (which doesn't surprise me, though I haven't been there in a while) that's a much more specialized space that I'd expect more outcry from than the "Oh I heard about WKW, I'll buy this" posts I'm seeing elsewhere, and it further cements the sad likelihood that most of us here are more isolated than we thought in our concerns, yelling into the wind.

I think the color timing on a lot of the films was definitely worse in the Varda set than the Bergman one, although you make a point that we can't expect perfection from any boxset. It didn't stop me from buying either of those, or the Godzilla one for that matter. But I am absolutely not supporting the label here. They haven't earned it in this case.

And to tie this together: it saddens me that the people who are plugging their ears and insisting nothing is wrong (on places like r/criterion) don't realize the damage that's being done to the meaning of the word "restoration" here. By all means, present the set as "reimaginings" or "revisitations," but do not pretend that these films are restored in any capacity.

Is anyone else surprised by the price on this set? $200 for seven films, or $28.57 per film. That's (much) higher that the other three box sets hinted at back in January:
The Bruce Lee box had 5 films for $125 MSRP = $25/film
Essential Fellini is 14 films for $250 = $17.85/film
Agnes Varda box has 22 films for $250 = $11.36/film (granted, some are shorts, I believe)

And Ingmar Bergman's Cinema lists 39 films for $300 = $7.69/film

Gotta recoup the costs of all that tinkering

domino harvey wrote:No aspect ratio info for 2046... are there more unpleasant surprises to come??

The press release has 2046 as 2.35:1.

Finch wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:31 pm God, the sycophants on Facebook defending WKW are fucking depressing. They don't get concerns over the originals not being included for posterity.

Bizarre. There are plenty of examples of Criterion including multiple cuts/versions of the same movie in a single release. The New World, The Tree of Life, Andrei Rublev, On the Waterfront, Red River, Godzilla, Dekalog, etc. That they didn't do the same for these, especially when Fallen Angels is so revised, is an appropriate cause for disappointment.

Given all of the issues, is there a compelling reason not to hold out for the 4K set to see what it has in store for us (assuming you have region-free capability)? Is that set expected to include at least all fo the films in the CC set?

wattsup32 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:24 am Given all of the issues, is there a compelling reason not to hold out for the 4K set to see what it has in store for us (assuming you have region-free capability)? Is that set expected to include at least all fo the films in the CC set?

As a rule (I think there's been one exception to this?), 4K discs don't have region locking. So if you've got a 4K player, you should be ok. That said, it'll probably include the same masters presented here.

will the extended cut of "The Hand" or the new restoration of "2046" available in other countries on blu-ray ?
Japan, Korean for instance ? os is it an exclusive "package" for Criterion US/Canada only ?

I know a Blu-Ray of 2046 is already out, but there was many problems with this old HD transfer.
The original cut of "The Hand" with subtitles ingrained was available in HD 1080 has a web release (with Soderbergh and Antonioni short movies)

soundchaser wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:25 amAs a rule (I think there's been one exception to this?), 4K discs don't have region locking. So if you've got a 4K player, you should be ok. That said, it'll probably include the same masters presented here.

Which exception? I thought the 4K UHD format does not have region coding in its specs.

andyli wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:33 amWhich exception? I thought the 4K UHD format does not have region coding in its specs.

Shout Factory's release of Weathering With You was region-locked, probably by mistake.

I've browsed the "captures" on Criterion web site regarding the new scope ratio for "Fallen Angels".
I have the Kino Blu-Ray, rewatched it last week and was wondering how the juke box scene will look like, but especially if the clock will disappear during the unforgettable scene with Michelle Reis being all alone with her fishnet stockings. Well, no more clock with the scope ratio. I always thought that clock was an essential element during the movie which deals with time passing, etc... and above all the whole Wong Kar Wai world (Days Of Being Wild for instance)...

At this point, I just hope someone issues Days of Being Wild separately. A 4K UHD BD with English subtitles would be amazing, and possibly the only title that I'd want from these "restorations."

wattsup32 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:02 pm

cowboydan wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:54 pm
My Blueberry Nights Japanese BD

Is the Studio Canal BD bad or just not as good as the Japanese BD?

Thanks for putting together this list. For the first time ever in a situation like this, I find myself in possession of almost all of the versions you listed.

I totally forgot that Studio Canal released it too. I don't have that edition, but based on specs and reviews online it appears to be equal quality to the Japanese release. So I updated my post to include that option for Region B folks.

You're welcome. I admit it feels nice not having sold any of my old copies. I imagine it must be similar for you. The only one I'm missing is Criterion's Chungking D. I have the Rolling Thunder DVD and just watch it on the C.Channel for HD.

Amazing Goose wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:50 am Is anyone else surprised by the price on this set? $200 for seven films, or $28.57 per film. That's (much) higher that the other three box sets hinted at back in January:
The Bruce Lee box had 5 films for $125 MSRP = $25/film
Essential Fellini is 14 films for $250 = $17.85/film
Agnes Varda box has 22 films for $250 = $11.36/film (granted, some are shorts, I believe)

And Ingmar Bergman's Cinema lists 39 films for $300 = $7.69/film

It is more in line with their usual pricing, where 3 film box sets have an MSRP of $100.