Blu-ray, in General

[Antoine Doinel]

I personally love packaging and hard copies. It would be a sad day if I never got the chance to buy Criterion dvds with beautiful packaging ever again.

So do a lot of people, but like iTunes, I think in the future you will have the option of downloading and printing out artwork, booklets etc or just having a PDF of them.

I can see renting films going the way of digital distribution, but I can't see home video libraries going that route.

That's what they said about CDs, but right now my growing digital music library is on pace to exceed my physical CD and vinyl libraries very soon.

I doubt digitally distributed films will be downloaded and transmitted wirelessly to the television.

It's happening already. Apple TV is just one device among many that are coming to market to do that very thing.

Just a quick question though, how would digital distribution of full titles work? say 30gb+ of a title (with extras) being saved on a hard drive somewhere. It would have to be like an account that accesses a server with titles that can be downloaded or streamed to the box. Waiting for a download or dealing with stream hiccups would get old instantly. Network problems and you cant watch movies. There are just too many problems inherent with the idea. Space, quality, connection, loss of password/hard drive code(if movies arent saved to a specific account, and instead saved as cookies on a certain hard drive). What happens if you want to watch a movie at a friend's house. The list can go on.

Of course, there will be problems that need to be overcome, but it's not inconceivable that they figure out a way to make the file sizes even smaller. You're right streaming is a bump that will have to overcome, but it's not impossible. AppleTV already has a built in local harddrive, small, but it's a start. If Apple is smart, the next gen version of the AppleTV will feature much larger hard drives to start allowing people to store their movies in the box rather than on their computer.

But I do agree, networking in general will have to become a lot simpler before the digital distribution can really take off and if the early reviews of Windows Vista are any indication, DRM and plain old software bugs aren't going away any time soon. But it's on the horizon and I don't think it can be ignored as a legitimate threat to the physical format. The RIAA did the same thing with P2P music downloads - ignored the growing sophistication among pirates and the quality of bootlegs out there - and came in way too late in the game to properly protect or market themselves. There are still too many music releases constrained by idiotic rights issues country by country. The same thing could happen to the movie industry. It would be smart of them to get in the game early, establish precedents with the major digital outlets and start digitizing ALL their catalogs from the current to the classics because technology often moves at a pace you can't predict. And if they really want to get smart, they will do their best to make deals that still allow users to access foreign titles digitally that don't have domestic distribution - an issue that has plagued the music industry.

[The Invunche]

Regarding AppleTV, there has been simple, relatively cheap products for streaming content to your TV for years. I own a couple and use them a lot, especially for downloaded TV shows. My anti-Apple sentiments forces me to point out that apple is in no way ahead of the curve on this one.

Regarding Vista and DRM, the early reviews you talk about have caused a lot of confusion on this subject. Some websites would have you believe the video/audio quality of everything played on Vista will be reduced. This is not true. What Vista has implemented is the same protection as in HD DVD players. An HD DVD movie (if content protected) will only pass full video/audio quality to HDCP compatible devices through HDMI.

[Antoine Doinel]

Regarding AppleTV, there has been simple, relatively cheap products for streaming content to your TV for years. I own a couple and use them a lot, especially for downloaded TV shows. My anti-Apple sentiments forces me to point out that apple is in no way ahead of the curve on this one.

Certainly, and I'm not claiming they were. However, whether you like Apple or not, they have the marketing power to make an idea popular and bring it to the general public.

[The Invunche]

Yes, I agree they have an excellent propaganda machine.

From The Digital Bits:

Finally today, there's word from Nielsen VideoScan and Home Media Retailing that Blu-ray Disc has officially surpassed HD-DVD in Format(s) to Date software sales. According to the data for the week ending 2/18, Blu-ray Disc has now sold 100 units for every 98.71 HD-DVDs sold since the formats launched last year. The linked story at HMR includes blustery spin from all parties concerned, so it's sure to pour gas on the already fiery discussion boards. We'll update our official tracking numbers (above) on Monday.

[Anthony]

More BD/HD-DVD news: Sony ups the Blu-ray / HD DVD Ante

[Cinesimilitude]

the 5:1 hardware 1:1 software is a very valid point. Blu Ray should be outselling HD like crazy. Thanks.

For now I'm holding off on buying HD-DVD's, just to see how it all pans out, because I'm more worried now than I was before. but If ordering all my movies from the UK ends up being how I have to do things, then that's what I'm prepared to do.

[Gigi M.]

Sorry for asking this question, but I was wondering if the extras on the HD-DVD combo discs are available for either formats or just the HD side.

[Cinesimilitude]

As far as I know (I only own one combo HD-DVD), the features are all on the SD side, and even though the HD side has the features, they are presented in standard definition. some releases I've seen such as Sky Captain contained HD trailers for other movies, but all the film-related features were SD. Basically what you want to do at this point is just look at the specs online or the back of the cases in store, as it tells you with the box at the top if any of the features are in HD, because there is by no means a standard way of doing things with the format so far.

[Gigi M.]

Thanks Sonic. I want to buy Children of Men HD combo since I want to upgrade to HD in the near future. Even if HD lose the war, you still have the SD on the other side. What do you think?

[Cinesimilitude]

It's a safe bet. Here's the features rundown:

the film is presented in 1080P 1.85:1 Widescreen on Side A with English and French Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 Surround audio and English SDH and French subtitles. HD exclusive extras include U-CONTROL, Picture in Picture and Ads & Propaganda.

Side B will offer the film in standard definition, playable in all DVD players. The film is presented in 1.85:1 Anamorphic Widescreen with English, French and Spanish audio (DD5.1 Surround) and subtitle options.

Extras found on both the HD DVD and DVD sides of the disc are:

Deleted Scenes

Possibility of Hope - A chilling documentary features the world's leading futurists and philosophers examining social and economic shifts that find expression in Children of Men

Theo and Julian - In exclusive on-set interviews, actors Clive Owen and Julianne Moore offer up insights and secrets about the complex and compelling characters they have created in Children of Men

Futuristic Designs - Director Alfonso Cuarón created an original and dynamic vision of the future for this film. Follow his vision as it goes from concept to seething cinematic life in this featurette

Visual Effects: Creating the Baby - Uncover the incredible visual effects used to create a life-like baby in the film

Men Under Attack - Children of Men features amazingly realistic scenes of the chaos and violence and groundbreaking, Oscar-nominated cinematography by Emmanuel Lubezki. This mini-documentary breaks down two of the most terrifying scenes in the film - the café explosion and a car under violent attack from all sides - to show how the filmmakers created the sequences

"Children of Men" Comments by Slavoj Zizek

I checked, and all the SD features are identical to the SD-DVD release. so for the extra money ($10?), I think it's worth it.

[Antoine Doinel]

From IMDB:

HD Movie Cracks Top Ten List

For the first time, a movie in a high-definition DVD format has broken into the top ten among best-sellers. Amazon.com said Tuesday that Sony's Blu-ray HD version of Casino Royale debuted at #8 on its list. The standard-definition/wide-screen version of the movie topped it. The full-screen version came in at No. 10.

[The Invunche]

And Blu-ray continues to outsell HD DVD 2 to 1.

[Cinesimilitude]

but software attachment rate is something we have to keep in mind invunche. 5 to 1 player sales should mean 5 to 1 software sales. BD is a long ways from that.

[The Invunche]

5 to 1 player sales should mean 5 to 1 software sales.

No it shouldn't necessarily. Especially when we can't know of people buying a PS3 did it only to play games.

[Cinesimilitude]

5 to 1 player sales should mean 5 to 1 software sales.

No it shouldn't necessarily. Especially when we can't know of people buying a PS3 did it only to play games.

I would bet that most of the software sales are from casual PS3 users, and not cinephiles.

If the Playstation 3 was taken out of the math, I would bet on there being more HD-DVDs bought per player and overall, than Blu-Ray. we have to keep the 360 add-on in the game because people only bought it to buy HD movies. that ofcourse presents the other problem that some people bought the PS3 exclusively as a BD player though. It's all too grey to define a line of which is more popular, and why. I personally think the PS3 being an all in one is giving BD supporters false hope. when the dust settles, my money is still on HD-DVD.

[The Invunche]

That's a lot of asumptions.

[Cinesimilitude]

Isn't speculation what this place largely exists on?

[The Invunche]

That and tantrums.

[exte]

If the Playstation 3 was taken out of the math...

Isn't this like saying 'if IE was taken out of windows computers'? I'm not saying the PS3 is dominating, but...

[Ted Todorov]

[quote]“So in consumers' minds, next-generation is closing in on a 2% share of all DVD sales,â€

[denti alligator]

An excellent reason to go HD(though Blue Ray is also available).

[Cinesimilitude]

If the Playstation 3 was taken out of the math...

Isn't this like saying 'if IE was taken out of windows computers'? I'm not saying the PS3 is dominating, but...

that's not even close to what I was saying, because if we want to turn this into a windows vs. mac debate, both operating systems have built-in internet browsers.

What I said doesn't really have a comparison because this kind of thing hasn't happened in a format war. video game systems have never influenced a format war until this generation.

As for the fact that the Xbox 360 has sold 10 million systems (for which 2 million have been estimated to have bought the HD add on) I can only say this...

A video game is made. one company releases it a year early and adds an expansion pack to make it equal to the other companies release a year later. which one sold more? The answer is already there with the sales of NexGen systems (and since we're talking HD and BD here, dont even think about mentioning the Wii, it doesnt apply).

At this point, I think the only reason HD is still around is because Microsoft wants it to be. They were the reason that things didnt work out when toshiba and sony execs met to discuss a possible ceasefire, and even though I fucking hate sony, and love my xbox 360, I'm starting to think that sony may infact be the lesser of two evils here. At this point, I'm tired of fighting for a side. I want it to be over. I dont want dual format players, I dont want Total HD from warner, where im paying more for their combo product instead of just one. I want one format. I dont care if its HD or BD, as long as the companies involved with BD get their act together on transfers an start encoding in VC-1 or anything that doesnt look like the shitty blu-ray stuff I've seen. If the format which is best for us can win (Invunche, not even you can say that HD is not the better format for us, if only for the lack of region coding), then I would be elated. but we've dealt with DVD for a decade having to buy hacked players and we've done just fine. I just don't care anymore. fuck microsoft, fuck sony, fuck warner's THD, cause that's all they want to do to us.

[exte]

that's not even close to what I was saying, because if we want to turn this into a windows vs. mac debate, both operating systems have built-in internet browsers.

I meant IE vs Netscape Navigator...

[Antoine Doinel]

Interesting article from the Independent on the uphill battle the PS3 faces:

Is the new PlayStation 3 doomed to failure?

It flopped in America. Now, for its British launch, Sony has put the price up. Rebecca Armstrong reports on PlayStation's prospects

The last time Sony launched a games console, it was an overnight sensation. The PlayStation 2, launched in 2000, didn't simply offer consumers fabulously hi-tech games and graphics. It also gave them a built-in, groovy new gadget, the DVD player - two new toys at a very competitive price. It was a combination that made the PS2 the fastest-selling console of all time. With sales of 115 million units worldwide, it is still going strong even now, in its seventh year in the shops.

On Friday, the electronics giant will be hoping to replicate these record-breaking figures as the PS2's successor, the PlayStation 3, launches in the UK and in Europe. The components are there: the console offers high-end graphics, million-dollar games and as an added extra for movie buffs, it can play Blu-ray discs, bringing high-definition films to its customers. On paper at least, that should tempt gamers and gadget freaks into splashing their cash. But ask how much the PS3 will cost, and cracks start to appear in Sony's plan. In the UK, the new console will cost £425, without any games - that's up to £226 more than its closest rival, Microsoft's Xbox 360, and £120 more than the cost of PlayStation 3 in America.

Are people prepared to spend this kind of money on a games console? And do they actually want all the bells and whistles that Sony is making them pay for? The people at Sony think so. "Consumers can store and browse photos, music and video files, access the internet and download games, as well as playing CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray discs," says Sony spokesperson Jonathan Fargher. "The PS3 removes the need for a broad range of separate devices, encompassing them instead into one small and easy-to-use box."

Once billeted in the bedrooms of teenagers across the world, the games console is fast migrating to the heart of the home. While it originally offered gamers a window into pixelated worlds peopled by plucky plumbers or high-speed hedgehogs, the games console has evolved into an entertainment hub. But the ability to do everything but make toast with a console comes at a price.

"It's a lot of money - £425 is more expensive than a bike, holiday or a month's rent," says Catherine Haugh, 27, a gamer who we let loose on a PS3. "But for gadget freaks or the kind of people who get a kick out of queuing up and being the first to buy something it's a great piece of kit."

Neil Ryan, 26, echoes the sentiment: "The box itself is beautiful but I couldn't spend that much on a games console, especially because I'd then have to spend about £50 each on the games to play on it. I'd wait until the price came down before I thought about buying one."

Mike Pszenicki, 27, was more positive: "The game graphics are good but they aren't as amazing as I'd been led to expect, but if I were to buy it, it would be for all the other things it offers - Blu-ray, storing music and looking at photos. But it is expensive."

So what does Sony have to say? "We accept that the PS3 is perceived to be costly, but the vast array of functions it offers, and its future-proof design, ensures that you're getting a long-term return on your investment, and a machine that will be in your living room for many years to come," says Fargher. "We believe it offers excellent value for money."

But Sony isn't the only games company with a console to sell. Over the past 18 months, Microsoft's Xbox 360 (£199 for a basic system, £279 for a full system with hard drive) and the Nintendo Wii (£179) have both gone on sale worldwide. Sales figures in the UK and America show that Sony is going to have a battle on its hands for British gamers' money.

In the US, PlayStation 3 was launched to cash in on the pre-Christmas bun fight, and the US retail analyst NPD monitored the sales figures to keep score. In December, the company found, more than a million Xbox 360s were sold, and 600,000 shoppers bought a Nintendo Wii. But the PS3 - despite its hype and status as the brand new console on the market - sold just half a million. Third place, out of three.

But another piece of news may have perplexed Sony further still. The number-one seller in America in December was not one of these "next-generation" consoles at all. It was the PlayStation 2, selling a massive 1.4 million.

This means that a console now nearly seven years old is still selling in vast quantities. Why? "The PS2 has the biggest back-catalogue of amazing titles, and it's cheap as chips. You can pick one up second hand for next to nothing, and in the shops they're only around £95," says Matthew Jones, 29, who lives in London. It's a view shared across the peer group.

Despite the launch of an updated version, Sony is keen to see the PS2 keep selling. "The PS2 is still going strong. It will continue to remain a key focus, with major franchises like [karaoke title] SingStar scheduled for release over the coming months."

But will the PS3 suffer because of its predecessor's continuing success? Time will tell. In the UK, during the month before Christmas, the Xbox 360 topped the sales ranks (250,000 were sold, compared with 200,000 Wiis, and 215,000 PS2s). So even if the UK opts for a next-generation console, the Xbox already has the lead.

But retailers remain positive about PlayStation 3. James Schall, console and video games manager at the website Amazon.co.uk, says he's "confident that it will take its place as one of the top-selling items on Amazon.co.uk in 2007". It remains to be seen whether UK shoppers will deem the PS3 to be justifiably priced or just plain expensive. There's bound to be a fanfare on Friday when the PS3 launches but Sony can't necessarily bank on the success of its expensive baby.

Other ways to spend £425

* Xbox 360 (£199.99) + Mikomi 15" flat-screen LCD TV (£129.99) + Acoustic Solutions home cinema speakers (£79.99) = £409.97

* Dell laptop (£349) + Logitech webcam (£24.99) + Microsoft wireless mouse (£22.49) + USB drinks warmer (£13.95) = £410.43

* Silver PS2 (£99.99) + Nintendo DS Lite (£99.99) + iPod Nano (£99) + Sony Cyber-shot digital camera (£105) = £403.98

[Cinesimilitude]

Warner just announced the HD edition of the Matrix trilogy...

on 5 double sided discs.