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Gary does say he does not think it's grain, but some kind of (digital?) noise... I still think those stills aren't really bad, so I'm curious to see it in motion.

If it's digital noise, I suspect it looks a fair bit worse in motion. Especially if it's working against the underlying original picture grain.

Correction: he does not suggest it's noise, but rather some deterioration of the print.

I'm not at all sure how a print could deteriorate like that. Physical damage, yes. Colour fading, yes. Chemical decomposition, possibly, if it hasn't been preserved well enough.

But what kind of natural deterioration would make a film from 1964 (bearing in mind that films twice as old look fine) look grainier than it did?

Not sure whether Nick giving us the heads up makes it seem not so bad or whether I'm just not so fussy with these issues. If that's a 3/10 though, I'm quids in with the boxset at the zavvi preorder price.

Re. The Birds: the soft-focus close-up inserts always bring sixties Star Trek to mind.

TMDaines wrote:Not sure whether Nick giving us the heads up makes it seem not so bad or whether I'm just not so fussy with these issues. If that's a 3/10 though, I'm quids in with the boxset at the zavvi preorder price.

You are indeed - it's just gone up by £30.

And I nearly ordered one the other day.

Oh well, it'll drop again in due course, and I'm in no hurry.

MichaelB wrote:Oh well, it'll drop again in due course, and I'm in no hurry.

Is there any word on either side of the pond concerning individual releases for these titles? Based on what we've seen from Nick and so far from Gary, this set needs to be cherry-picked.

MichaelB wrote:

TMDaines wrote:Not sure whether Nick giving us the heads up makes it seem not so bad or whether I'm just not so fussy with these issues. If that's a 3/10 though, I'm quids in with the boxset at the zavvi preorder price.

You are indeed - it's just gone up by £30.

And I nearly ordered one the other day.

Oh well, it'll drop again in due course, and I'm in no hurry.

If you were outside the UK, with VAT removal it comes down to about £80 shipped. Not too bad.

Do we know anything concrete about differences between the two sets, aside from NXNW? The original Vertigo disc Nick had didn't have a 2.0 mix (whether the US disc is original mono or a downmixed 5.1 is still unknown, I gather), but that may have changed, I suppose. After VAT removal, the UK set is still a bit cheaper, even after taking NXNW into consideration.

Does anyone see some kind of pattern in the second Marnie shot? Maybe I'm crazy but I see a checkerboard, I augmented the contrast here:


It could be the blotchy texture Gary is talking about.

Wow, that's unbelievable. I'm a free lance editor, and that same checkboard pattern comes up in Final Cut Pro when you lay on the faux film grain effect too heavily to a clip, because the algorithms use a repeating system in the randomization of the grain (not so random, in the end). I'm sure this is the case in editing programs other than FCP, but that is definitely what this looks like to me. Terrible.

I see the same problem with the 2005 DVD though.

Right, suggesting that there may have been faux grain added to the source for both the DVD and the blu, since they seem to have come from the same thing.

Well spotted Saturnome. There is a bit of edge enchancement as well. In that picture (on the beaver original) it is noticeable at the edge of the "roof" over the platform. The sky looks brighter close to that edge.

Might be a case of them blasting a damaged print with DNR and then trying (poorly) to add faux grain to give the cleaned image a more filmic look?

I definitely see what people mean about the opening shot of MARNIE, but I wonder if it couldn't be a product of diffusion filtering. Someone pointed out in Home Theater Forum that sometimes black nylon stockings are stretched over a lens to create a diffusion effect - couldn't the pattern possibly be a byproduct of that? Note that this mesh pattern does not seem to be present in Tooze's other frame captures, which are quite grainy but in different ways. Certainly this doesn't look like the clearly digital grain present in Raro Video's Blu-ray of CONVERSATION PIECE.

Robert Harris has the set on order and will no doubt look over it very carefully. I plan to wait for his comments and Nick Wrigley's before making any final decisions about ordering the set.

Shadow of a Doubt.

Yep, the gauze effect is there on the dvd from the Masterpiece box as well. It looks to me like they've just reused that same older 2k master with maybe some colour and contrast fiddling (for the better). But yes, I think this demonstrates that a new scan of better elements was required and the money/time/will not available. Still, I'll take any improvement I can get!

Most of all I'm overjoyed to see Rear Window finally looking respectable!

The 'gauze effect' is also in the film prints. It's always been there plain as day. I can't be the only one who remembers MARNIE projected.

Not everything we notice is an anomaly, this is what I'm trying to bring out. When HD shows up something that was less apparent in SD, this does not make it a digital artefact.

Hofmeister, I'd put money on faux grain not being there when you saw MARNIE projected!

Oh absolutely, peerpee, faux grain was of course inexistent, and I was not talking of faux grain. I referred to the wide pattern visible in the platform shot, caused by the combination of filtering and stopping-down. That wide pattern [vaguely reminiscent of an after-image of a wire fence] is definitely present in the prints. It's always given that opening a rather odd look, particularly when you sit way in the front.

I've never seen MARNIE shown digitally so you're ahead of me on that. I can imagine how faux grain (indefensible to begin with) might make that pattern even more prominent, but faux grain is not the reason for the pattern's presence in the first place.

Indeed, but faux grain would enhance it and make it look more odd.

I think the deal on Fingerhut will be the fixed versions. I ordered some shoes from Fingerhut the day I ordered the Hitchcock set and the shoes have already shipped. The Hitch set hasn't shipped. I imagine they don't have the stock yet.

Hitch set hasn't shipped yet for me either, but I can't figure out what your shoes have to do with this set