Eclipse Discussion and Random Speculation

[domino harvey]

surprised to see this coming so soon after the release of Cria!

[Joshua Dago]

this box doesn't really move me. i'll wait for the Naruse.

[blindside8zao]

is there any word about which films will be in the Eclipse Naruse set? I'm wondering in particular if there will be any crossover with the MOC set.

[daniel p]

I suggested a collection of films of Chinese Fifth Generation film makers such as Zhang Yimou, Chen Kaige, Tian Zhuangzhuang, Zhou Xiaowen, and Hu Mei.

I think I would explode with happiness should such a thing come to pass (I've had something of a hard on for Fifth Generation movies since seeing Raise the Red Lantern and Farewell My Concubine recently, and that era is so woefully underrepresented on DVD).

I've been asking for a Criterion release of Lantern for years, they just don't seem interested. I think both of these, especially Lantern, deserve Criterion releases, as opposed to Eclipse.

[CSM126]

I suggested a collection of films of Chinese Fifth Generation film makers such as Zhang Yimou, Chen Kaige, Tian Zhuangzhuang, Zhou Xiaowen, and Hu Mei.

I think I would explode with happiness should such a thing come to pass (I've had something of a hard on for Fifth Generation movies since seeing Raise the Red Lantern and Farewell My Concubine recently, and that era is so woefully underrepresented on DVD).

I've been asking for a Criterion release of Lantern for years, they just don't seem interested. I think both of these, especially Lantern, deserve Criterion releases, as opposed to Eclipse.

Well mind you I wasn't advocating those two exact movies for Eclipse...that would be redundant considering both already have barebones releases (MANY in Lantern's case). I too would kill for full-blown Criterion releases of both Lantern and Concubine (serial kill, even) (though rights issues are probably going to prevent that. Lantern is in MGM's hands now I guess and Concubine is in Miramax's I think).

But there are lots of films and filmmakers from the Fifth Generation that just aren't represented in the DVD market yet (in R1 anyway). An Eclipse collection would be a good start to remedying that problem.

[Michael Kerpan]

An Ozu silent box set guess

Certainty -- I Was Born But

High probability -- Dragnet Girl

Filling out the set -- That Night's Wife and/or Woman of Tokyo (both are pretty short)

[denti alligator]

I was Born But... would hardly count as obscure Ozu, though. Isn't that one of his most well-known and well-loved films?

I would think a box with *all* the silents except I Was Born But..., which should get a spine number.

[Steven H]

I was Born But... would hardly count as obscure Ozu, though. Isn't that one of his most well-known and well-loved films?

It doesn't seem that the Eclipse line is necessarily limited to obscure. More people are familiar with Steel Helmet than, say, Border Radio, and you see how different they're treated. It seems it has more to do with source materials and possible extras, which all pre 1950 Ozu films more than lack in. A rerelease of Good Morning with I was born but... would make lots of sense, and I would prefer a wartime and occupation era Ozu box (as there's only so much you can do with intertitles, and I already have all the Panoramas.)

It seems like there's very little speculation about what Naruse will be included in the already alluded to eclipse release. I would hope for the six Hayashi Fumiko films (even if it means doubling up on Repast and probably Floating Clouds). I seriously doubt we'll see any early, silent, or wartime Naruse any day soon.

[What A Disgrace]

I'm hoping that Series 7 will be the Gremillion box, which was mentioned at the same time as the Bergman box very early on.

I confess to not having seen any Gremillion...but I'd like to see a box containing Guele d'amour (Gabin), L'Étrange Monsieur Victor (Raimu), Remorques (Gabin again), and Le Ciel est à vous (Vanel), for reasons made obvious. Naturally, reasons which are only a bonus to discovering a neglected autuer.

[backstreetsbackalright]

I would think a box with *all* the silents except I Was Born But..., which should get a spine number.

I think that'd probably be too big for one box. Probably even too big for two boxes...

[Wittsdream]

After viewing TCM's presentation of Oshima's "Cruel Story of Youth" last night with a Janus logo preceding the film, I would be very surprised if this film, along with a few others, is not part of an Eclipse set within the next year.

"Youth" is definitely important enough a film to be a stand-alone Criterion title, but Oshima's early works are almost non existent in any region on English-friendly worldwide dvd. There is a good representation of his later works in R1 and R2 (In the Realm of the Senses, Empire of Passion, Merry X-mas Mr. Lawrence , Taboo)

How about an Eclipse set containing: "Cruel Story of Youth," "Boy," "Ceremony" and "Death by Hanging?"

[Awesome Welles]

Shohei Imamura: Documenting Fiction (Not sure of the box set title I came up with it on the spot...)

A Man Vanishes (1967)
Deep Desire of Gods (1968)
History of Postwar Japan as Told by a Bar Hostess (1970)
Karayuki-san, the Making of a Prostitute (1975)

I am certainly not an Imamura expert but it is my understanding that after Imamura made The Pornographers Imamura started making documentaries due to the lack of success of the film. His documentaries explored similar themes to his narrative films and I think it would be interesting to see a box of these works side by side.

[Michael Kerpan]

Shohei Imamura: Documenting Fiction ...

Deep Desire of Gods (1968)

Profound Desire of the Gods doesn't pretend to be a documentary. ;~}

[Gropius]

I think it would be interesting to see a box of these works side by side.

I would also love to see this, and there is already a documentary precedent with the Malle set. But then Zedz's reservations above - i.e. are these too obscure even for the Eclipse line? - seem to have some grounding.

Personally I would love to see Eclipse putting in a stronger showing for documentary, a category in which Criterion's main catalogue has tended to be somewhat weak.

[Awesome Welles]

I was under the impression that A Man Vanishes and History of Postwar Japan as Told by a Bar Hostess were documentaries and Deep Desire of Gods and Karayuki-san, the Making of a Prostitute were fiction films...

[souvenir]

It was actually the failure of Imamura's epic Profound Desire of the Gods that took him away from fiction films until Vengeance Is Mine. I think maybe Criterion doesn't know what to do with their Imamura titles. Both of their releases thus far have been scant on extras and his "documentaries" could really use some background information. They're certainly not straightforward like the Malle set. I'd love to see a Criterion Imamura box, with appropriate supplemental material, more than an Eclipse one.

[Michael Kerpan]

I was under the impression that A Man Vanishes and History of Postwar Japan as Told by a Bar Hostess were documentaries and Deep Desire of Gods and Karayuki-san, the Making of a Prostitute were fiction films...

Karayuki-san is a documentary also.

[Steven H]

The only "collections" that make sense would be an "early Imamura" (i.e. from Pigs and Battleships to Profound Desires) and/or "Imamura documentaries", of which not only Making of a Prostitute and History of Postwar Japan as Told By A Bar Hostess, but maybe some of his television work (particularly the interesting Mohomatsu Returns Home.) These are very small scale, personal, films and worlds apart from the nearly epic (Profound Desires of the Gods), post-modern (A Man Vanishes), and sociological/sexual (Insect Woman), so they would fit together better than anything before or after.

This will probably never happen, but I would also love to see something of Kawashima Yuzo's, who Imamura idolized (he also worked with him, check his essay "My Teacher" in Quandt's Imamura volume). I can't seem to locate any of his stuff anywhere, period.

[zedz]

After viewing TCM's presentation of Oshima's "Cruel Story of Youth" last night with a Janus logo preceding the film, I would be very surprised if this film, along with a few others, is not part of an Eclipse set within the next year.

"Youth" is definitely important enough a film to be a stand-alone Criterion title, but Oshima's early works are almost non existent in any region on English-friendly worldwide dvd. There is a good representation of his later works in R1 and R2 (In the Realm of the Senses, Empire of Passion, Merry X-mas Mr. Lawrence , Taboo)

How about an Eclipse set containing: "Cruel Story of Youth," "Boy," "Ceremony" and "Death by Hanging?"

The early Shochiku "sun tribe" films (Town of Love and Hope, Cruel Story, Sun's Burial) would make a great set, but they don't really fit with the much more radical late 60s Art Theatre Guild (and associated) productions.

An ATG set (Death by Hanging, Boy, The Man Who Left His Will on Film, The Ceremony, Dear Summer Sister) would be the release of the year, but each of those films is so rich that they're crying out for proper Criterion extras (you'd need a ferociously well-organised commentary to tease out the layers of significance in Death by Hanging, for example).

The in-between years (The Catch through Diary of a Shinjuku Thief) are also eminently boxable. Basically, anything from the 60s and early 70s would be hugely welcome, in any configuration, however random.

The Janus logo on Cruel Story is great news, since I think the only Oshima title that had been hitherto hinted at was the negligible Merry Christmas, Mr Lawrence.

[dadaistnun]

Tim Lucas mentions a film called Kyonetsu No Kisetsu/The Weird Lovemakers/The Wapred Ones as being preceded by a Janus logo when shown on the World Cinema HD channel.

It's Nikkatsu, not Shochiku, though in my limited exposure to this type of film (which pretty much begins and ends with Criterion's release of Crazed Fruit, a film I really enjoyed) it sounds like it might belong to this subgenre.

[kieslowski_67]

I suggested a collection of films of Chinese Fifth Generation film makers such as Zhang Yimou, Chen Kaige, Tian Zhuangzhuang, Zhou Xiaowen, and Hu Mei.

I think I would explode with happiness should such a thing come to pass (I've had something of a hard on for Fifth Generation movies since seeing Raise the Red Lantern and Farewell My Concubine recently, and that era is so woefully underrepresented on DVD).

Why not just go for a box set of Chinese new wave films released in that 80s that include:

one and eight
yellow earth
the beach
On the hunting ground
good women
sacrifice for the youth (my favorite among the bunch)
Wild mountain
The Black Cannon Incident
Horsethief
King of children
The red sorghum
The evening bell

That would be much more interesting than just titles from Yimou and Kaige.

[zedz]

That's a good suggestion, and nobody else seems to be lining up to release these titles, though there are several key ones (Yellow Earth, Red Sorghum and Horse Thief) that seem more suited to Criterion treatment.

Personally, I'd be even more excited by a Sixth Generation collection. I'd love to see The Days again. Toss another snowball on that infernal fire!

[CSM126]

Why not just go for a box set of Chinese new wave films released in that 80s ...

That would be much more interesting than just titles from Yimou and Kaige.

Yes, of course that would be nice too. But I still really want some Fifth Generation. Not just Yimou and Kaige, mind you, but also ZhuangZhuang, Xiaowen, Mei, etc., as I noted earlier.

[kekid]

November Criterions have been announced, but no word on Eclipse. Do we believe it will be a "down" month?

[toiletduck!]

Either we need to stop assuming that Eclipse and Criterion announcements are going to run on the same schedule or Criterion needs to stop trying to run them on the same schedule and just announce Eclipse when Eclipse is ready to be announced. Which might be exactly what they're doing, in which case revert to option A.

-Toilet Dcuk