criterionforum.org

Wish it was as cheap to send a box set back to Amazon UK as it was to have it sent to me. Thankfully they refunded the whole amount, thought for sure they were going to stick to the £8.09 they indicated as maximum reimbursement when I set up the return. (Just shy of $28 by the way. Phew.)

Eureka copy should be arriving any day now.

(Edit: Arrived Thursday 21st. Much better. #967)

In case anybody cares, I ordered this set from Eureka on November 17 and received it today. So they are apparently still available from Eureka at this point.

Thought I'd revive this thread and see if anyone was interested in comparing the blu-ray image quality of these films to the original dvds. I've only been able to locate a handful of reviews that address that.

From what I've seen, it's not the biggest upgrade ever, first because there hasn't really been some new work done (no new remaster / restoration), second because the sources don't always allow it. However, some limitations have been addressed, the definition is often there, the encodes are all pretty clean, so it's pretty good, though not Earth shattering.

The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.

We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock

Si it did sell out in the end, except in 6 months and not in 6... weeks as it seems like when you go back in the older posts of this topic.

Actually I think Zedz was speculating 6 months. I'm on the fence about Mizoguchi after fiinishing this set. Previously had only seen the "hits". Great technique and filmmaking, but his thematic concerns strike me as more simplisitic and the drama more inert than his contemporaries and what came after.

This may be inaccurate, but Amazon says they only have 14 copies left in stock.

Zot! wrote: I'm on the fence about Mizoguchi after fiinishing this set. Previously had only seen the "hits". Great technique and filmmaking, but his thematic concerns strike me as more simplisitic and the drama more inert than his contemporaries and what came after.

Anything that _did_ particularly impress you in this set?

I find nothing "simplistic" about Chikamatsu monogatari - or even the "lesser" Uwasa no onna. In fact, I'd say the _most_ simplistic films in the set are the two most well-known in the West, plus Yokihi.

The only director who was actually a contemporary of Mizoguchi who has a film that one can find on DVD/Blu is Kinugasa. Anyone else one encounters is effectively from a later cinematic generation. While only a decade (or so) younger, Mizoguchi and Kinugasa did represent a much older dramatic tradition. If one is going to appreciate their work, one has to be willing to re-calibrate a bit -- which I can (usually, but not always) do for Mizoguchi, but not for Kinugasa,

Michael Kerpan wrote:

Zot! wrote: I'm on the fence about Mizoguchi after fiinishing this set. Previously had only seen the "hits". Great technique and filmmaking, but his thematic concerns strike me as more simplisitic and the drama more inert than his contemporaries and what came after.

Anything that _did_ particularly impress you in this set?

I find nothing "simplistic" about Chikamatsu monogatari - or even the "lesser" Uwasa no onna. In fact, I'd say the _most_ simplistic films in the set are the two most well-known in the West, plus Yokihi.

The only director who was actually a contemporary of Mizoguchi who has a film that one can find on DVD/Blu is Kinugasa. Anyone else one encounters is effectively from a later cinematic generation. While only a decade (or so) younger, Mizoguchi and Kinugasa did represent a much older dramatic tradition. If one is going to appreciate their work, one has to be willing to re-calibrate a bit -- which I can (usually, but not always) do for Mizoguchi, but not for Kinugasa,

I think for me Chikamatsu monogatari was a highlight and probably Sansho. You're right though, and I think that's what it is, I'm contextualizing it all wrong. I was contemporizing in regards to the timeframe of this box, rather than Mizoguchi himself. I think you could consider Ozu a contemporary, and I find those films to be closer to what I enjoy in terms of depth and subtext. I agree that "older dramatic tradition" is probably closer than "simplistic" in terms of his drama. Although while his humanist concerns are certainly modern, they're really up front, and over the course of 8 films feel repetative. Though again, they were never intended to be watched in quick succession, so again context is perhaps being applied unfairly.

Drucker wrote:The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.

We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock

Not quite correct. We still have some (read very limited) stock in the office, I've set the PayPal stock system to stop accepting orders in four boxsets' time, but I need to properly count the stock in the morning, I think there's definitely another ten or so.

By officially deleted we mean it is now out of stock at Sony, so, when retailers sell out they cannot order any more.

Amazon saying they have 14 in stock is accurate.

Mizoguchi and Kinugasa both started directing in the early 20s (before the Kanto Earthquake) and were rooted in the late Meiji shimpa theatrical tradition (Kinugasa was actually a star performer of female roles). Ozu -- along with colleagues like Shimizu, Shimazu, Ozu, Gosho, Naruse, Uchida and Yamanaka -- started directing in the late 20s. This group of slightly younger directors had little or no interest in shimpa or in old Japanese movies (especially those that were tied to this tradition). Instead they were dedicated Hollywood movie fans (in much the way that the French New Wave would later be). Their primary influences were modern American films (and European films). For instance, Ozu claimed he never saw a Japanese film prior to going to work at Shochiku, despite watching countless Hollywood movies. So Ozu's film (and those of his cohort) are much easier for Western audiences to respond to than those of Mizoguchi and Kinugasa.

Eureka wrote:

Drucker wrote:The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.

We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock

Not quite correct. We still have some (read very limited) stock in the office, I've set the PayPal stock system to stop accepting orders in four boxsets' time, but I need to properly count the stock in the morning, I think there's definitely another ten or so.

I just tried placing an order, but when I tried checking out through Paypal it was removed....how do we still order it if we want to?

Eureka wrote:

Drucker wrote:The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.

We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock

Not quite correct. We still have some (read very limited) stock in the office, I've set the PayPal stock system to stop accepting orders in four boxsets' time, but I need to properly count the stock in the morning, I think there's definitely another ten or so.

By officially deleted we mean it is now out of stock at Sony, so, when retailers sell out they cannot order any more.

Amazon saying they have 14 in stock is accurate.

Thanks for this clarification. When I saw your tweet last night, I ordered a copy off Amazon, but then cancelled and ordered from you direct once I saw how much cheaper it was. I panicked a little reading this thread earlier!

I've never watched any Mizoguchi - one of the few masters who I am yet to sample - but, before it disappears forever, I couldn't resist grabbing what seems to be one of the pinnacles of the Blu-ray format, whose contents may never be released again in HD. There's been more than a few titles that I've seen go out of print and that several months down the line I've regretted not grabbing after my interests have evolved, but by which point the price has greatly inflated. Eight of his films and a thick book for £38: that's £4 per film and introduction and £6 for the book. It'll be a good primer and even if I don't end up liking the films, I'm sure I can break even when passing the set on.

Michael Kerpan wrote: For instance, Ozu claimed he never saw a Japanese film prior to going to work at Shochiku, despite watching countless Hollywood movies. So Ozu's film (and those of his cohort) are much easier for Western audiences to respond to than those of Mizoguchi and Kinugasa.

I'm sure you're right, yet I must be the exception. I haven't seen enough Kinugasa to comment, but I've usually found Mizoguchi's films more appealing, more on my emotional wavelength, than Ozu's.

I was so bowled over by Sansho when I first saw it in 1982 that I insisted on running the 16mm print for my parents, and even they were moved by it. This was very notable because my mother (a child during WW2) in particular had a lifelong hatred of "Japs" and would always vent her prejudice whenever Japanese films appeared on television.

I'm sure there's much that I don't understand in Mizoguchi, but his films are generally more accessible to me, especially on an emotional level, because he embraces what I recognise as melodrama, and - though coming from a different tradition - it often feels similar to Hollywood's. Related to this, Mizoguchi films tend to be darker in mood and/or visual style, and this appeals to me too. I also love "sequence shots" with elaborate camera movements, particularly when they are used as appropriately as Mizoguchi does.

My favourite Ozu pictures - like Tokyo Story and A Hen in the Wind - are the few which are regarded as more "melodramatic". Although Ozu literally posts his love of Hollywood in his films, his detached, elliptical storytelling - coupled with an increasingly personal visual style - feels to me like the antithesis of American (and most contemporary European) cinema. Over the last 40 years, I've seen nearly all Ozu's extant pictures, some of them many times, but I still find him a "difficult" director and there are several of his films (notably Good Morning) I can barely get through.

I'm writing here purely about my personal reaction, not attempting an objective, qualitative comparison.

Ozu's Hollywood prefernce seems to have been for films like those of Lloyd and Lubitsch, rather than melodramas. Certainly he was influenced by films like Docks of New York (and Last Laugh) -- but films like these were more of an influence on 1930s Mizoguchi -- while there is little to suggest that Mizoguchi took much interest in American comedies.

Apparently Mizoguchi encountered Western opera -- and was impressed by it. This is most apparent in Story of Late Chrysanthemums, which borrows quite a lot from Verdi's La traviata (an opera his screenwriter was also familiar with). And there IS a very "operatic" quality to much of Mizoguchi's post-20s work -- with visual flourishes taking the place of vocal ones. Being a lifelong opera fan has, I think, helped me appreciate Mizoguchi -- despite my predilection for (at least partially) comic movies. (Not much humor -- except a bit of very bleak, black humor -- in "Hen in the Wind" but "Tokyo Story" has a high level of humor of all sorts that only gradually transitions to somberness in the end).

For those that are interested, we've got ten copies left that I'll be making available tomorrow. Will tweet on the MoC twitter when they are up.

Eureka wrote:For those that are interested, we've got ten copies left that I'll be making available tomorrow. Will tweet on the MoC twitter when they are up.

And can someone crosspost here as well please? The work PC has a social media filter (but does let me access here!)

Thanks

Dr Amicus wrote:

Eureka wrote:For those that are interested, we've got ten copies left that I'll be making available tomorrow. Will tweet on the MoC twitter when they are up.

And can someone crosspost here as well please? The work PC has a social media filter (but does let me access here!)

Thanks

Last ten copies: http://bit.ly/1kRvLby" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great - and ordered thanks.

I've been in two minds about whether or not to get it - I have the DVDs - but this was enough to finally make me go for it.

Dr Amicus wrote:Great - and ordered thanks.

I've been in two minds about whether or not to get it - I have the DVDs - but this was enough to finally make me go for it.

Going on your location I can deduce that you got in just at the last minute, you got the last one we had!

And Amazon's now down to just 5 copies.

Once everyone gets their sets, can we have a nice long discussion of the films? ;-}

Again, this thread is technically meant for discussion of the boxset itself (or, I suppose, for Mizoguchi in general), whereas there are individual threads just for commenting on the films themselves:

52-53 / BD 36 Ugetsu monogatari + Oyū-sama

54-55 / BD 37 Sanshō dayū + Gion bayashi

56-57 / BD 71 Chikamatsu monogatari + Uwasa no onna

58-59 / BD 72 Akasen chitai + Yokihi

swo17 wrote:Again, this thread is technically meant for discussion of the boxset itself (or, I suppose, for Mizoguchi in general), whereas there are individual threads just for commenting on the films themselves...

Strictly speaking, the place for discussing Mizoguchi in general is:

http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/vie ... php?t=6155" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just hope the discussions happen ... somewhere. ;-}