criterionforum.org

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:04 am**

peerpee wrote:We hope this is pleasing to everyone. I've got over my previous brickwall on the matter -- which was rooted in idealism and aestheticism.

I'm very glad to hear this. I felt the same way previously, but have realized that I'm going to have to be practical - for financial reasons, I'm not going to be able to go blu anytime soon. I don't even have an HDTV; I went with an Apple monitor, believing that they'd offer blu-ray support soon. Two years later... I caved and bought the SD release of Une femme mariée, and will likely do the same with Profound Desires once it's released. I will definitely upgrade in the future, but I don't like the feeling of buying something that's technically inferior when the superior product is already available. Needless to say it would be much more satisfying (and cheaper) to kill two birds with one stone.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:23 am**

So is it possible that the four DVD releases that were announced in this thread will end up being dual format releases instead of DVD only?

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:31 am**

swo17 wrote:So is it possible that the four DVD releases that were announced in this thread will end up being dual format releases instead of DVD only?

Not any time in the foreseeable future, I'm afraid. (Ditto w/r/t City Girl.) Tabula rasa, 2011.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:38 am**

A bit off topic, but since we've got your attention do you have some words on the Lubitsch set winding up in the OOP pile.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:16 am**

I have to say I'm delighted by this. Regardless of company loyalty (we all know who pays my salary, but I've probably written more rave reviews of MoC releases in Sight & Sound than anyone else), I always thought the BFI called this one correctly from the start - and I've never bought the "spare coaster" argument.

In fact, the DVDs in dual format packages generally get played considerably more frequently than the Blu-ray discs because they're much more convenient. Much though I love having the hi-def versions, I have just one location and a limited amount of time to watch them, whereas I can play DVDs anywhere - in my bedroom, the office, on the train, on the sofa when my wife's watching some crap on telly, you name it.

They're certainly a lot more useful than, say, a disc of extras that I'll only watch once - and sometimes not at all, since I have plenty of two and even three-disc sets where only the main feature has English subtitles.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:51 am**

I have to say, I'm with you Michael, dual format suits me just fine for the reasons you outline (for me it's Blu on the HD Projector in my Home Cinema, but, as yet, mostly DVD on the smaller TV/monitors & computers that abound in my life & work)... Just lately, also worth noting, BBC One is the first mainstream TV channel to have gone dual format with SD & HD streams being obtainable on Sky HD box etc...

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:08 am**

I was initially very against the BFI's spare coaster decision, but I've warmed to it. I've actually found it quite convenient at times to have extras available on SD so I can watch them away from my front room BD player.

There, I've said it.

The only thing I dislike about it is the move to thicker plastic cases that take up more room. If only the BFI and MoC would use the same slime-line 2-disc cases used for Nighthawks/Strip Jack Naked, then I'd be happy. It'd probably mean sacrificing the booklet, though. Maybe they could have these as e-reader compatible PDFs at the website, then people could read them without buying the relevant BD/DVD and it might inspire them to get it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:27 am**

On the other hand, I'll be happy with the move to thicker plastic cases if, like the BFI, MoC can get rid of the hideous blue plastic used for blu-ray cases.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:41 am**

RossyG wrote:If only the BFI and MoC would use the same slime-line 2-disc cases used for Nighthawks/Strip Jack Naked, then I'd be happy. It'd probably mean sacrificing the booklet, though.

I suspect you're right - if I remember rightly, MoC had horrendous problems with their early Blu-rays and ended up having to reproduce much of the planned booklet for Sunrise online. Similarly, Nighthawks had to be released in a cardboard slipcase because the book was far too thick to fit in the box - and presumably that's a more expensive option than simply making the case bigger (as it involves creating a whole new element).

And I really don't think sacrificing the booklets is a good idea - I'm a huge fan, and I think they're especially important in the case of obscure releases where the booklets sometimes become primary reference sources: this is especially true of the Flipside releases and things like Jane Arden/Jack Bond, postwar documentaries, etc. In fact, I recently wrote 5,000 words for Second Run's A Blonde in Love (far more than was actually commissioned) because for various logistical reasons it proved impossible to add any on-disc extras and I was determined to provide some compensation.

Amusingly, a scholar of my acquaintance recently complained that DVD booklets didn't have ISBN numbers, because he was having difficulty referencing them in academic publications - despite the fact that the quality of the material and the credentials of the authors were otherwise more than sufficient to pass the peer review test.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:44 am**

I never had a problem with the dual format: another advantage of this is that you can lend the DVD to friends and still be able to watch the film on Blu if you happen to be in the mood for it. Now that MoC are going dual-format, I wanted to ask if you could switch to the lovely transparent keepcases the BFI are using? Much easier on the eye than the ugly blue ones.
And hopefully the dual format proves so profitable for MoC that they can release more titles in the year, i.e. monthly (perhaps even one or two in December?).

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:40 pm**

Better still, can we have Criterion-style boxes with slightly bigger artwork and no weird blue voids at the top?

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:31 pm**

This is terrific news. I don't have a blu-ray player yet and I don't know when I will but this means that in the meantime I have continued access to MoC's catalogue and am future-proofed while I'm at it. Thanks very much.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:02 pm**

MichaelB wrote:And I really don't think sacrificing the booklets is a good idea - I'm a huge fan, and I think they're especially important in the case of obscure releases where the booklets sometimes become primary reference sources

Seconded. I'll concede that dual format editions are more convenient in some respects, but I value booklets/books more than convenience.

Finch wrote:And hopefully the dual format proves so profitable for MoC that they can release more titles in the year, i.e. monthly (perhaps even one or two in December?).

I kind of doubt that this will happen given that one of the main reasons MoC wanted to go Blu-only on certain titles was because the extra effort required to produce companion DVD editions equated to less time and resources available to spend on producing more new titles. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:18 pm**

RossyG wrote:Better still, can we have Criterion-style boxes with slightly bigger artwork and no weird blue voids at the top?

These are only made for single disc releases, the company that manufacture them (Scanavo) do not currently produce a multiple disc version.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:20 pm**

Pity.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:41 am**

17 La signora senza camelie

18 Le Amiche

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:13 am**

Goodbye weird blue voids.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:15 pm**

Terrific! Will MoC now Duel-ize their previous Blu releases to save money?

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:19 pm**

evillights wrote:
swo17 wrote:So is it possible that the four DVD releases that were announced in this thread will end up being dual format releases instead of DVD only?
Not any time in the foreseeable future, I'm afraid. (Ditto w/r/t City Girl.) Tabula rasa, 2011.

Posted: **Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:55 am**

peerpee wrote:It has an inbuilt obsolescence and is environmentally unfriendly/wasteful.

No more wasteful than, say, a 2nd disc filled with extras.

Whilst I couldn't initially see the point, I've actually found dual format releases to be very useful. Having only one blu-ray player, and no blu-equipped computer equipment, I've almost always found the DVD to come in handy - also, if visiting someone's house with the disc. Of course, this would change if blu actually replaces DVD, but I just don't see that happening - it will remain a niche format until downloads take over.

On the other hand, MoC (and Criterion) releases are already priced so much higher than most other labels that I hope this won't mean an increase in RRP over the blu-only editions. Not to say that the costs are necessarily unjustified but when you can pick up most any other catalogue title new on amazon for £3-5 a pop these days (£6-8 on blu) it does give one pause.

Antonioni blu-ray in March, however - I'm there! You could charge me triple for those. Il Grido, L'Avventura, La Notte and L'Eclisse needed too, of course (+ any chance of licensing Zabriskie Point from Warner..?)

Posted: **Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:15 pm**

Nothing wrote:No more wasteful than, say, a 2nd disc filled with extras.

Indeed - and I reckon the DVDs in Dual Format sets, regardless of whether they're by the BFI or Disney, get played at least as often. But I rarely bother with extras discs these days unless I'm reviewing them - and many of mine aren't English-friendly to begin with.

Of course, this would change if blu actually replaces DVD, but I just don't see that happening - it will remain a niche format until downloads take over.

Realistically, I can't see it happening either. It costs a fair bit more to master a Blu (especially if you're creating a new HD master from scratch), and there's so much stuff out there that simply isn't worth upgrading to HD, either because it was shot in a low-fi format in the first place or because surviving materials just aren't good enough. It's great that the BFI has put out Ozu's The Only Son and There Was a Father in HD, but I doubt very much that this would have happened if they hadn't been supporting features: the source materials are so poor that there's no especial improvement over the DVD. In fact, if anything, the extra clarity highlights the damage!

(+ any chance of licensing Zabriskie Point from Warner..?)

Almost certainly a forlorn hope, since Warner doesn't license its content to anyone.

I know of at least two distributors (almost certainly more) who've made serious enquiries about The Devils over the last few years - with Ken Russell's enthusiastic support. If only he'd made it for Fox or Universal or indeed almost anyone else!

Posted: **Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:28 am**

Back in the day, I recall they released the unrated dirctor's cut of Natural Born Killers through Trimark (now Lionsgate). A pity a similar arrangement can't be made for The Devils (+ the original cut of Performance?!!)

Posted: **Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:06 pm**

Nothing wrote:Back in the day, I recall they released the unrated dirctor's cut of Natural Born Killers through Trimark (now Lionsgate). A pity a similar arrangement can't be made for The Devils (+ the original cut of Performance?!!)

Sadly, I think this was the product of a deal that Oliver Stone made at the time, whereby Warners only ended up with the rights to the MPAA-approved version. I'm sure Ken Russell wishes he'd come to a similar arrangement, but it's impossible to do it retrospectively. Of course, if Warners would only sub-license their stuff in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue at all!

As for the original cut of Performance, does it even exist any more, or was it pulled apart when assembling the final version? I'd love to see it out of curiosity, but I've always been under the impression that this a practically unique instance of the supposedly studio-butchered cut ending up more radical and experimental than the original - Frank Mazzola was only brought in as supervising (re-)editor after Warners had already rejected the first cut, and much of what we now think of as "Roegian" cutting was carried out during Cammell and Mazzola's sessions. Ironically, Roeg apparently hated it at first and considered taking his name off it - he had nothing to do with the editing because he was in Australia shooting Walkabout.

Posted: **Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:49 am**

That's right, Nic had nothing to do with the final cut, but this is one of the reasons why it would at least be interesting to see what came before.

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