Learning a Language for Film Studies

[domino harvey]

I think we had to achieve roughly the level of A2, so not as strenuous as some programs. We either had to show receipts (pass a few semesters) or take a reading test

[therewillbeblus]

Yep (or should I say, oui)

Out of curiosity, how would they define "proven competency"?

In my own academic field - art history - it's expected in US universitis to have a 'reading level' in two foreign languages, so I had to sit exams in French and Italian. Much lower level than fluency and it doesn't require a speaking ability, but means that you should be able to read and comprehend academic texts in those langauges.

For social work, you need to take a test proving a proficiency in Spanish in order to practice in California. I feel like it'd be important for educators in certain states too, though no idea if it's required

[knives]

In MA teachers need a sheltered immersion license which basically means knowing how to pedagogically work with English 2nd language students.

[therewillbeblus]

In MA teachers need a sheltered immersion license which basically means knowing how to pedagogically work with English 2nd language students.

That's for public, right? I feel like a lot of these requirements go out the window in private/charters

[MichaelB]

Come to think of it, my A-level in French is most likely good enough.

Not that I have the first clue where the actual certificate is, mind.

[knives]

In MA teachers need a sheltered immersion license which basically means knowing how to pedagogically work with English 2nd language students.

That's for public, right? I feel like a lot of these requirements go out the window in private/charters

If they don’t require a certificate. To be certified in Mass you need it though.

[beamish14]

Out of curiosity, how would they define "proven competency"?

In my own academic field - art history - it's expected in US universitis to have a 'reading level' in two foreign languages, so I had to sit exams in French and Italian. Much lower level than fluency and it doesn't require a speaking ability, but means that you should be able to read and comprehend academic texts in those langauges.

For social work, you need to take a test proving a proficiency in Spanish in order to practice in California. I feel like it'd be important for educators in certain states too, though no idea if it's required

I’m from Los Angeles and possess an MSW and (inactive) ACSW license, but did not have to take a Spanish proficiency exam. My mother is a retired LCSW and only speaks English and Dutch. If you intend to do any kind of clinical work in Southern California, you really should know Spanish, Korean, Vietnamese, Armenian, or Tagalog, though.

I transitioned into education, and my single subject education specialist credential says that I’m authorized to work with English Language Learners, although that really doesn’t mean much

[therewillbeblus]

Interesting, I know that for current LCSWs you need proficiency in Spanish, as I had colleagues who transferred to CA prior to and following obtaining licenses and it was a requirement. People like your mother are grandfathered in though- my mom is also an LICSW and doesn't need to retake tests or anything like that. If she transferred her license to CA, she might have to though

[MichaelB]

Because Indicator is releasing so much in French and Italian at the moment, I've been seriously blitzing my Italian over the past year, taking it from pretty much inarguable A2 level to more debatable B1 with elements of B2, which I might eventually formalise by taking what will be my first ever Italian exams.

And it's been great fun; Italian's always been the little brother to my French, because while I studied the latter formally for seven years (albeit in a British school with mostly non-native-speaking teachers, with all that that implies) and it got regular workouts thereafter thanks to regular trips to France, having French relatives, etc., I only ever formally studied Italian for seven weeks, although as those seven weeks were in Italy itself and with teachers who weren't merely Italian but who insisted on only speaking Italian, I picked it up much faster, and have always found it much easier to just casually slip into Italian in a conversational situation.

But one thing that prolonged French study gave me was a large vocabulary (during the final two A-level years I was routinely learning a hundred words per week), whereas until recently my Italian vocab was vastly inferior—my standard cheat was to say the French word in an Italian accent, which I got away with a gratifying amount of the time. (And, much to my delight, when subtitling an interview with Michelangelo Antonioni speaking French, I caught him doing exactly the same thing in reverse, although this initially stumped both me and the native French speaker that I consulted—Tenia of this parish—until he realised what was going on.)

So I've been giving that a heavy daily workout for the past year (I'd say my word count is now reliably in mid four-figures and very possibly not far short of my French vocab), as well as delving into things that I never formally studied before, such as the subjunctive or some of the more idiosyncratic tenses. (Whereas English has just twelve tenses, Italian has a head-scratching twenty-one, although in practice I've been able to get by just fine with the main four—present, future, the standard two flavours of past—plus the conditional.) And Netflix has been surprisingly fruitful, if only in terms of its ability to serve up Italian-language material with Italian subtitles as a crib—thanks to Italy's long history of across-the-board dubbing, Italian subtitles for feature films are very rarely encountered in the wild.

My immediate target is reliable—possibly certified—B2 level ("can comfortably navigate most everyday and professional environments using the target language. However, you may still miss subtle nuances, implied meanings, or complex idioms"), with the aim of pushing that to C1 eventually. (C2, or "non-native fluent", I suspect is beyond someone who didn't start to learn a single foreign language until secondary school at eleven.)

[Mr Sausage]

(C2, or "non-native fluent", I suspect is beyond someone who didn't start to learn a single foreign language until secondary school at eleven.)

It’s actually possible. I’ve seen it happen! One thing I discovered from ESL training is that people tend to overrate childhood exposure in gaining language proficiency. Many of the best non-native English speakers I’ve taught did not start young or live abroad. For a lot of them, taking an active interest in the language outside the classroom was a decisive factor. Something else I noticed is they didn’t memorize rules one after another, but listened for units of language and their appropriateness, more like native speakers do when learning and later judging their own language (ie. how we know when something feels “off” in speech even if we’ve never learned a single rule about our native language).

The flip side is all those students I had that’d studied English in childhood, had lived in anglophone countries for years or even decades, and whose English never seemed to improve. They got somehow to the level they were at and then their skills ossified, never to change again.

[knives]

Yeah, a lot of adult immigrants manage perfect language skills within 3-6 years. Now, obviously you’re not an immigrant, but the same principle applies where continuous exposure builds quality.

Anecdotally, I didn’t pick up Hebrew till my 20s and now can read it completely fluently (with the exception of more complex texts) thanks to continually practicing and learning.

[Lowry_Sam]

Marrying someone can help but if that partner’s English takes priority over your Italian (because you live in the US) then you will only get a basic understanding. What you will get though that you don’t get from courses are the hand gestures and cultural norms that do help when your mastery of the language isn’t up to snuff.

I am finding that the Pimsleur courses (cd’s from my local library are better than any of the others as they work in multiple aspects of a language and force you to do it on the spot rather than a book). You can always supplement with any books if/when you need to see things written. Duolingo is more of a game to do while waiting in line.

The Easy (French/Spanish…) YouTube channels are a better supplement as you can turn on/off subtitles.

The one difficulty I am having in learning Spanish now after trying Italian is the similarity between the 2. Falling back on Italian words when trying Spanish is so easy to do.

[MichaelB]

I'm not entirely convinced that ditching my wife and replacing her with someone Italian is going to go down particularly well with her. And our financial plans are very heavily predicated on us not splitting up.

Technically, I don't know Spanish at all; I've never had a lesson and have never set foot in a Spanish-speaking country. But since I know Italian (and French) it's so easy to follow the structure of Spanish that I ended up subtitling the majority of extras in Indicator's Mexican releases; we'd get the interviews transcribed and translated professionally, and I'd then turn them into subtitles as it was obvious where the breaks should go.

[Lowry_Sam]

Short of joining a religion that allows multiples wives and petitioning your government to change those laws based on religious persecution, all of which would take time and effort, you could find connections to Italian social circles via the internet. Meetup & Craigslist used to be good for that, not so much anymore. Partiful seems to be the app du jour, however I'm not sure how they are for languages/culture meetups or in the UK. Also a spouse isn't always the best teacher for another language, especially if your spouse makes a point of always speaking English whenever in the vicinity of other Italians while traveling so that s/he's not outed as an Italian.