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Kapurush from AE's Satyajit Ray Collection vol. 2 runs 69.09 and it is in PAL format.

A 25fps transfer of 69m09s would only run 72m02s at 24fps.

When the above comments were first posted, I checked Blu-ray.com's listing for the title and they had it as 74m. Since the review was posted this morning, it has been altered to 69m. Why the PAL DVD is also 69m is still a mystery.

EddieLarkin wrote:When the above comments were first posted, I checked Blu-ray.com's listing for the title and they had it as 74m. Since the review was posted this morning, it has been altered to 69m. Why the PAL DVD is also 69m is still a mystery.

Not any more - according to this review, it's an NTSC-to-PAL conversion.

Which explains everything.

I am confused! So the 35 mm prints have NTSC or PAL format? Let's not talk about the home video formats. When IMDb or even satyajitray.org is saying that the run time for The Coward is 74 minutes, then how come it is 69 minutes 48 seconds on the discs? Sorry, I am just technically challenged, I would really appreciate if somebody can explain this to me. Am I wrong in thinking that they cut the length of the film by 4 minutes on the disc?
On the other hand, when I am looking at Charulata run time, those sites are saying it is 117 minutes, whereas blu-ray.com review is saying 120 minutes! Its just confusing to me...

chatterjees wrote:I am confused! So the 35 mm prints have NTSC or PAL format?

No. As to websites and film running times, more often than not these seem to be inaccurate in some way. You'll often find running times for non-existent versions of films (like a 150 minute version of The Life of Oharu,) you might get the PAL speedup running time from a European DVD, you might get the odd minute or two attached or subtracted from a film by common mistake.

chatterjees wrote:I am confused! So the 35 mm prints have NTSC or PAL format?

No - I was talking about the original NTSC video source for the Artificial Eye DVD. Normally, a PAL transfer would be speeded up by 4%, but not if it's derived from an NTSC video source.

When IMDb or even satyajitray.org is saying that the run time for The Coward is 74 minutes, then how come it is 69 minutes 48 seconds on the discs?

Very possibly because the IMDB is wrong, and satyajitray.org got its running time from them? Which is a sequence of events that's all too easy to believe. (The IMDB gets running times wrong so frequently that I try never to use it as a source without cross-checking).

Sorry, I am just technically challenged, I would really appreciate if somebody can explain this to me. Am I wrong in thinking that they cut the length of the film by 4 minutes on the disc?

Since Criterion is hosting a restored version, and since the running time appears to be identical to the Artificial Eye version, it's a reasonably safe bet that the running time was 69 minutes all along.

On the other hand, when I am looking at Charulata run time, those sites are saying it is 117 minutes, whereas blu-ray.com review is saying 120 minutes! Its just confusing to me...

Again, there's every possibility that those sites were wrong. Or that the restorers screwed up both titles, of course, but I know which I personally find easiest to believe.

JonasEB wrote:As to websites and film running times, more often than not these seem to be inaccurate in some way. You'll often find running times for non-existent versions of films (like a 150 minute version of The Life of Oharu,) you might get the PAL speedup running time from a European DVD, you might get the odd minute or two attached or subtracted from a film by common mistake.

The trick is to find a reliable source of the physical length of a film print, from which you can calculate theatrical and PAL running times to your heart's content. The BBFC website and the BFI's Film and Television Database can be helpful here - and the BBFC duly informs me that, back in 1965, Charulata was 10,703 feet, or 118m55s. The extra minute or so mentioned by Blu-ray.com is almost certainly due to additional restoration credits.

I couldn't find a footage length for The Coward, but the BBFC site claims that it was only 67m15s on previous submissions - so, again, it's possible that the theatrical running time was just 67 minutes and that restoration credits make up the difference.

Thanks Michael and JonasEB, it makes a lot of sense now! I really appreciate your detailed analysis/explanation. Thank you again.

Picked up Charulata--wow, this looks amazing. I only popped the disc in for a test run, but started to get sucked into the movie after what was supposed to be a 1 minute check!

Also poked around the supplements. Man, Ray's got such a smooth speaking voice. Like George Takei.

Thank you, Criterion, for including an excellent additional film as a bonus in this set!

Is The Coward set in Assam?

Michael Kerpan wrote: Is The Coward set in Assam?

I still need to watch this (haven't seen this one in ages), but I think it was set in North Bengal, not in Assam. Tea-estatea are not only popular in Assam, but also in the neighborhood of Darjeeling (Jalpaiguri and Coochbehar)! The locals in that car shop spoke fluent Bengali, not Assamese...

Darjeeling, should have remembered this -- I've certainly consumed plenty of Darjeeling tea over the years. ;-}

Blu-ray.com Good to know The Coward is the same transfer as the UK disc.

Both films in this set reminded me more than a little of Naruse's films (something that was not the case with any of the other Rays films I've seen). I've never seen any Ray comments on Naruse -- so I assume this must be coincidental.

Probably as I doubt Naruse was shown any more in India than in England.

Michael Kerpan wrote:Both films in this set reminded me more than a little of Naruse's films (something that was not the case with any of the other Rays films I've seen). I've never seen any Ray comments on Naruse -- so I assume this must be coincidental.

I wanted to share this after seeing your comment. Here is another example for you. Last month my wife and I watched 10-12 Ozu (BFI BD collections) films. This was our first Ozu experience. We were so surprised to find out that the reflections of socio-economic status and family relationships in films from post-war Japan and from post-independence India (rather West Bengal, where people speak Bengali) was so similar! It was so coincidental that the impact of Tokyo Story (some other films too) on us was not very high. My wife loved them instantly though, because she started to relate to the stories immediately. She (and I) had already seen at least 20 commercial films made in Bengali and Hindi which analyzed the same issues. Sometimes, those analyses in the Bengali (or Hindi) films were interrupted by unnecessary songs. After all, its South East Asia. Although it is full of diversity, there are some cultural similarities.

chatterjees wrote:Sometimes, those analyses in the Bengali (or Hindi) films were interrupted by unnecessary songs. After all, its South East Asia.

Ozu has a surprising number of songs, here and there -- perhaps not so extraneous as in the Indian films you mention. ;~}

Thanks for pointing out the socio-cinematic parallels.

Ray said his main inspiration was from neo-realist Italian films and what European cinema was doing post war.

manicsounds wrote:Ray said his main inspiration was from neo-realist Italian films and what European cinema was doing post war.

And there's the direct relationship with Renoir, of course, which I think shows through clearly in the even-handedness of his characterisation.

I watched both Charulata and The Big City recently and found both films highly entertaining and, contrary to a couple of contributors here, very accessible. I'm curious as to why anyone would find these films unaccessible? Is it the Indian culture or language? The plots in both films were easy to follow, at least they were for me.

I spent much of my childhood in the Middle East and South Asia in the 60s, and Indian (and Arabic) films were shown frequently on television. My recollection is that most of these films were rather crude, usually set in villages or farms, and featured an abundance of singing (I still have images in my mind of villagers popping out from behind trees and bursting into song. For years, I avoided Indian films.

Question: Both Charulata and The Big City included phrases and sentences occasionally spoken in English, and I wonder whether the practice of including English in Indian films eventually became commonplace? Did S. Ray initiate the trend?

I'm glad to have watched both films and to be able to put my bias against Indian films to rest. I'm eager to watch more Ray films and have The Music Room in my huluplus queue.

Sandman wrote:Question: Both Charulata and The Big City included phrases and sentences occasionally spoken in English, and I wonder whether the practice of including English in Indian films eventually became commonplace? Did S. Ray initiate the trend?

I always just assumed that that's how people actually speak in India. (The British did rule there for centuries.)

swo17 wrote:

Sandman wrote:Question: Both Charulata and The Big City included phrases and sentences occasionally spoken in English, and I wonder whether the practice of including English in Indian films eventually became commonplace? Did S. Ray initiate the trend?

I always just assumed that that's how people actually speak in India. (The British did rule there for centuries.)

Its a very common practice in the Indian Art House domain. In addition to what swo17 said, Kolkata (previously known as Calcutta) was the capital of Brittish India for over 200 years before they named Delhi as the capital city(current capital, since 1911 I guess).

In the films produced by the moderm, mainstream "Bollywood" industry, they don't even speak Hindi (national language) anymore (at least most of the time), it has become almost entirely English. Again, its a multiculture country and different states have their own preferences. Bengali culture is very different from that of the other parts of the country. Ray is just one representative of the Bengali society. On the other hand, Ritwik Ghatak never liked to use English in his films, though there are some exceptions.

Michael Kerpan wrote:Both films in this set reminded me more than a little of Naruse's films (something that was not the case with any of the other Rays films I've seen). I've never seen any Ray comments on Naruse -- so I assume this must be coincidental.

"Calm Without, Fire Within" was the title of a 1963 essay (and Philip Kemp uses it as the title for his Criterion essay) written by Ray concerning his thoughts on Japanese cinema, but having seen only excerpts of it and other critics referring to it, it is my understanding that much of that essay was devoted to discussing Kurosawa. So it is still not entirely unreasonable to speculate that he might have already been familiar with Naruse by the time he shot Charulata as well. I know Ray has spoken of Ozu and Mizoguchi as well, although I don't know if they are mentioned in his 1963 essay.

I've read that essay, and he did discuss Ozu and Mizoguchi in it, but I don't remember any mentions of Naruse. It was my impression that he was mainly aware of, and writing about, the major names in international arthouse cinema.

Finally saw the Charulata BR -- my heavens, how gorgeous this looks. One of the few movies I'd rate as perfect finally has the home video release it deserves.