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jonah.77 wrote:Hell, I even like the rocktastic Craig Safan score used in Thief's climax.

One rumor I keep hearing floating around is that Michael wanted to use Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" (I'm assuming the guitar solo at the end specifically) for the end or (more likely) that he temped the scene with it. There's a bit of resemblance to it in Safan's piece, but strangely enough even more in Michel Rubini's "Graham's Theme" from Manhunter.

Thanks to kung fu films and their sneaky ways, I'm a huge Tangerine Dream fan. LOVE their 'Thief' score.

I do agree that the score for 'The Keep' was out of place.

I hope whatever changes are made to Thief do not ruin it.

Tangerine Dream was the first concert I ever went to (1986), and it was Thief that introduced me to them.

That scene on the beach is one of my favourite moments in cinema and I couldn't imagine it being anymore perfect than it is with that Tangerine Dream track. It's such a euphoric scene. The way that the track builds slowly as Caan sits there having burnt through the safe. Finally he has made it - that one big job, literally achieved through his sweat and labour. Then it cuts to that stride down the beach and the music is just perfect.

I actually think the Tangerine Dream score is possibly the best thing about The Keep. Sure, it is anachronistic, but not so much more than their music for Thief was.

oh yeah wrote:I actually think the Tangerine Dream score is possibly the best thing about The Keep. Sure, it is anachronistic, but not so much more than their music for Thief was.

I dunno...Thief is set in the 80s, The Keep is set in the 1940s.

Orlac wrote:

oh yeah wrote:I actually think the Tangerine Dream score is possibly the best thing about The Keep. Sure, it is anachronistic, but not so much more than their music for Thief was.

I dunno...Thief is set in the 80s, The Keep is set in the 1940s.

I guess I just find it silly to think a film score for a period film must have conceivably existed in that time period. It's like the complaints about Mann's Public Enemies that digital is too modern for the 1930s, as if a 35mm film in 2009 would look like something that could come from 1933. It's all cultural conditioning.

oh yeah wrote:

Orlac wrote:

oh yeah wrote:I actually think the Tangerine Dream score is possibly the best thing about The Keep. Sure, it is anachronistic, but not so much more than their music for Thief was.

I dunno...Thief is set in the 80s, The Keep is set in the 1940s.

I guess I just find it silly to think a film score for a period film must have conceivably existed in that time period. It's like the complaints about Mann's Public Enemies that digital is too modern for the 1930s, as if a 35mm film in 2009 would look like something that could come from 1933. It's all cultural conditioning.

Especially if you consider any original score composed for a film set in a time period before its recording, like Zimmer's score for The Thin Red Line or John William's score for any period film Spielberg has done. That music is anachronistic as well.

Some musical anachronisms fit better than others. Amplification didn't exist in the Wild West, but somehow the electric guitar fits perfectly in scores for Westerns. On the other hand, I can't imagine a TD-type score making much sense in a WWII-era movie at all.

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:He's never touched The Insider

Except for screwing up the aspect ratio for the DVD (which fortunately was changed for Blu).

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Some musical anachronisms fit better than others. Amplification didn't exist in the Wild West, but somehow the electric guitar fits perfectly in scores for Westerns. On the other hand, I can't imagine a TD-type score making much sense in a WWII-era movie at all.

Actually, it works very well - but then again, so does the TD-type score in Pathfinder, which was set at least a millennium ago.

The vast majority of musical accompaniments in films are blatantly anachronistic to some degree (the musical idiom of the mid-to-late nineteenth century has been overlaid over a vast swathe of topics from the Roman Empire to outer space), so this has never bothered me.

Actually, I would argue that the word "anachronism" can only apply to diegetic music. One can argue about whether a choice of non-diegetic music is appropriate for a given scene or movie, but it can't possibly be an anachronism.

I entirely agree with PillowRock. Plus some of the greatest films have incongruous and/or anachronistic for a period piece music cues (the main one that comes to mind right at this moment is Kurosawa's use of Western music cues during Ran) but I think non-diegetic music is meant to be much closer to the viewer than to the characters.

Something like the wonderful score for The Keep creates the dreamy atmosphere much more for the viewer's enjoyment, capturing something of the mental state of the characters that they might not be expressing or aware of and in some ways 'translating' those feelings to a contemporary audience through a more contemporary score. In that sense, something like the score for The Keep is expressing an authentic emotion, tied to character more than era.

MichaelB wrote:

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Some musical anachronisms fit better than others. Amplification didn't exist in the Wild West, but somehow the electric guitar fits perfectly in scores for Westerns. On the other hand, I can't imagine a TD-type score making much sense in a WWII-era movie at all.

Actually, it works very well - but then again, so does the TD-type score in Pathfinder, which was set at least a millennium ago.

The vast majority of musical accompaniments in films are blatantly anachronistic to some degree (the musical idiom of the mid-to-late nineteenth century has been overlaid over a vast swathe of topics from the Roman Empire to outer space), so this has never bothered me.

colinr0380 wrote:Something like the wonderful score for The Keep creates the dreamy atmosphere much more for the viewer's enjoyment, capturing something of the mental state of the characters that they might not be expressing or aware of and in some ways 'translating' those feelings to a contemporary audience through a more contemporary score. In that sense, something like the score for The Keep is expressing an authentic emotion, tied to character more than era.

Yeah, my reasons for disliking TD stuff are entirely personal, along the sophisticated lines of, "Ew, icky, gross." It has nothing to do with the chronological fit of the music (nor can I really justify it beyond my own private associations with the music). Even though The Keep is more or less WWII-based (in Romania, I guess), the setting is so contained and otherworldly that the Nazi uniforms are practically our only visual key to that historical connection. The rest is invented Wilsonian occult and weird-ass FX. (Not that I don't accept Glaeken as my personal savior. Get thee behind me Molasar!) As MichaelB suggests, I think a lot of people mistake "period" for what has merely been conventional cues in films long enough for viewers to be used to them; many seem to believe that the voice of Lisa Gerrard speaks to them directly of ancient Palestine, for example (when clearly the people of ancient Palestine were listening to the didgeridoo and Tuvan throat singers).

To bring this back on topic a little, I think the music for Thief is mostly a good fit. It could have been done away with in a few spots but the way the electronics basically translate to the highly sophisticated equipment Frank and others use for the robberies seem appropriate to the story. Would be nice too if something resembling definitive edition of the soundtrack comes out, putting all the music on one disc (or two).

I wonder if the interviews were done before or after Dennis Farina's death. I hope a nice bit of time is devoted to Michael talking about casting him in what's a rather miniscule role, but still his first.

The comparison to Drive has been on my mind since this was announced. I felt once I saw the first trailer for Refn's film that the supporting characters (specifically Cranston and Brooks) had similarities to a few in Thief. I didn't immediately feel that Driver had much in common with Frank until recently.

Potential spoilers for both films

There is a heavily stilted way both of these men go about finding their love interests in each film. Driver almost insinuates himself into Irene's life without overtly doing so, I think we might have even had a discussion about whether or not he caused her car not to start so he can fix it. It's justified because he sees himself as the star of his own movie, as indicated by the speech at the beginning that's repeated later on to a rude but more realistic response.

The way by which Frank wins over Tuesday Weld isn't as sneaky, but what is jilted is his idea of how to find love. Michael said in the commentary track that Frank never learned to properly court a girl because he spent the years young men usually do that in jail. And during that time, in his mind, Frank develops a very straight way of thinking how life goes as opposed to to how it really is.

anarcho9 wrote:That scene on the beach is one of my favourite moments in cinema and I couldn't imagine it being anymore perfect than it is with that Tangerine Dream track. It's such a euphoric scene. The way that the track builds slowly as Caan sits there having burnt through the safe. Finally he has made it - that one big job, literally achieved through his sweat and labour. Then it cuts to that stride down the beach and the music is just perfect.

Agreed - the TD score over this particular scene is amazing, and the rest of their music here is incredible as well. I can't imagine the movie having a score by anyone else. The neon lights, rain-soaked night streets, & sheer urban vibe of the film are all improved by the music.

Also enjoyed the brief jazz music in the bar, which added to the film as well.

Looking forward to the Criterion version of Thief. The only version I've seen so far is the MGM DVD - the non-anamorphic & sub-par print really took away from my appreciation of the film.

In case you haven't seen it and are thinking about blind-buying it, it's currently on the MoviePlex OnDemand service (in HD, too).

Great review of the forthcoming Criterion Thief - Thanks for the post. Those screen shots are beautiful. Can't wait to see this in BD.

About time this film was released in an acceptable format.....

I hope the speed on the ending is back to (slow-mo) normal!

Someone on the blu-ray.com forums thinks the color scheme has been revised to a teal tint, different from the original theatrical version.

Criterion Blu-ray:



HDTV Theatrical cut:

Sure looks that way, but the Criterion transfer was supervised by Mann, so I guess it represents what he wants now, even if it's not necessarily what he wanted in 1981.

But there are some who said that the new transfer looks closer to how it looked in '81.