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Anyone watch the MOC's Pitfall? Criterion is a little behind on his films. A pity its not sold separately. Looking to purchase Woman of the Dunes.

I also held off on the BFI Woman in the Dunes, but I really don't mind double-dipping. Video-essays + the short films make the set very appealing. Plus, I'd pay anything for a pristine transfer of Woman in the Dunes, and the BFI looked good, but not perfect. Of course Criterion's will be letterboxed...

sevenarts wrote:Weird that they wouldn't include Antonio Gaudi if they had the rights to it. I mean, where else would they put that? I didn't really expect Man Without a Map considering the rumored copyright problems with it, but it's still very disappointing, especially considering that's my favorite Abe novel and I'd really love to see what Teshigahara did with it.

The Man Without a Map undoubtedly would have been the most likely candidate for inclusion in this set, but I fail to see how the Gaudi documentary would have worked with the Abe/Takemuitsu collaborations.

kinjitsu wrote:The Man Without a Map undoubtedly would have been the most likely candidate for inclusion in this set, but I fail to see how the Gaudi documentary would have worked with the Abe/Takemuitsu collaborations.

I was under the impression that it'd be a kind of bonus/extra, and it would've been very welcome IMO. No, it doesn't have much to do with the other films, but I kinda doubt they'd release it on its own, and they probably don't have any other Teshigahara films from his later period, so I don't see it coming out anytime soon now. But really, I would've just been elated if they got ahold of Map somehow.

kinjitsu wrote:The Man Without a Map undoubtedly would have been the most likely candidate for inclusion in this set, but I fail to see how the Gaudi documentary would have worked with the Abe/Takemuitsu collaborations.

It's at least a Takemitsu collaboration, and a pretty significant one. And since the Milestone DVD went OOP and the doc was featured in a lot of Takemitsu retrospectives (including the one I caught in Portland), it seemed like a logical inclusion. After all, it would go nicely in a set, since I doubt many would find it appealing as a stand-alone release -- unfortunately, since it is one of my favorite films. Oh well. I'll just hold on to my subpar Milestone for awhile longer.

I've never seen The Man Without a Map. I'm sure there's some reason its not in this set, since it would be an oh-so-perfect addition.

Way behind the 8-ball on this. I'd buy DUNES if available seperately but an unbroken box sucks.

HerrSchreck wrote:Way behind the 8-ball on this. I'd buy DUNES if available seperately but an unbroken box sucks.

I'm in the same boat but I might just buy it anyway.

Already owning the two MoC titles makes this a tough purchase, especially considering all the other great titles coming out the same time. But a CC edish of Woman in the Dunes is too good to pass up, even if I end up paying $60 or so for it. Those extra's look like they'll make the price worth it.

HerrSchreck wrote:Way behind the 8-ball on this. I'd buy DUNES if available seperately but an unbroken box sucks.

Indeed, if they split the shorts/ extras over three separate releases, I'd wait to see if any of them were significantly better than the MoC's and bfi that I already own. As it is, it's highly unlikely I'll double dip (x3) on this for some shorts and I can't imagine I'm the only one here who feels this way.

It looks like CC are beginning to flex their biceps in 2007 with the number of overlaps. Hopefully, if they keep coming out after the UK versions, it shouldn't hurt the smaller companies.

For me, these are the 5th, 6th and 7th quality CC films this year alone I won't be buying as I already own stellar versions (or in the case of Sansho, will do shortly). I know international clients like me are probably an insignificant percentage of CC's market but it doesn't make it any less annoying...

Glad to see that (according to Criterion's website) it will indeed be the 147 min director's cut of Woman in the Dunes that will be on offer, not the shorter version as the first post in this thread would indicate.

zedz wrote:I really like the Rayns commentaries on both MoC titles. It's hard to imagine that Criterion's video essays will give the same depth of information.

The Rayns commentaries on the MoC discs are exemplary and, for me, indispensable. These are challenging films made during a complex period in the history of the Japanese film industry, and Rayns does an outstanding job of sorting it all out. I might end up double-dipping to get the CC Woman in the Dunes, but I wouldn't want to be without the MoC commentaries.

For what it is worth I e-mailed Criterion to consider licencing the commentaries from MOC.

Discussion about competing discs from different regions has been moved here. Please try to keep discussion in this thread limited to the Criterion editions of these films.

HerrSchreck wrote:Way behind the 8-ball on this. I'd buy DUNES if available seperately but an unbroken box sucks.

Agreed completely...i've been waiting for this one since speculation surfaced 3 years ago....and now it's in a box with two films i'm not interested in.

so should all these comments indicate to me that the other two films aren't anywhere near as good as woman?

No, all these comments indicate their makers already the other two films in the form of the UK MoC editions.

blindside8zao wrote:so should all these comments indicate to me that the other two films aren't anywhere near as good as woman?

Donald Brown wrote:No, all these comments indicate their makers already the other two films in the form of the UK MoC editions.

You might read what other members have to say about Pitfall and Face of Another before passing judgment, not to mention reading reviews at places like Midnight Eye, DVD Times or Strictly Film School.

Yeah, jeez -- Teshigahara should be considered as one with Tarkovsky, etc. -- someone who didn't make many films, but all of which are distinct and reward (if not demand) multiple viewings.

Pitfall is almost Antonioni-esque. It really stayed with me, even more than Woman In The Dunes (of course I had already seen WITD about a hundred times).

I was really psyched for Face Of Another so my initial reaction was one of disappointment... which changed considerably upon further thought. This one definitely has the most radical, memorable imagery of any of his films.

And even his lesser films like Antonio Gaudi or Rikyu are masterful and hypnotic.

[quote="kinjitsu"]From the Yamagata International Documentary Film Festival website:

AKO—White Morning

JAPAN / 1965 / Japanese / B&W / 35mm / 29 min

Director: Teshigahara Hiroshi
Original story, Script: Abe Kobo
Photography: Ishimoto Yasuhiro
Music: Takemitsu Toru
Producer: Wakatsuki Shigeru
Cast: Irie Miki, Hasegawa Teruko, Matsushita Yoko
Production Company: Ninjin Club

Adapted for film by Abe Kobo from one of his own works, AKO—White Morning was made as the Japanese component of the omnibus work Fifteen-Year-Old Widows (Japan, Italy, France, Canada.) With Ako, a sixteen-year-old working in a bread factory, as its protagonist, White Morning is a cinema verité-style portrayal of what it was like being young in the sixties. Based around sketches of Ako's days off spent with her boyfriend, White Morning is a collage of daily work in the factory and young Ako's comments on her life. A soundtrack by Takemitsu Toru brings the images to life.

Tokyo 1958

JAPAN / 1958 / French, English, Japanese / Color, B&W / 16mm / 30 min

Directors, Script, Planning: Teshigahara Hiroshi, Hani Susumu, Matsuyama Zenzo, Kusakabe Kyushiro, Ogi Masahiro, Kawazu Yoshiro, Maruo Sadamu, Mushanokoji Kanzaburo, Sakisaka Ryuichiro
Photography: Kikuchi Shu, Segawa Hiroshi, Fujii Yoshitaka
Music: Hara Hiroo
Production: Cinema 58

This experimental film was entered in the World Experimental Film Competition held in Brussels, Belgium, and is the work of “Cinema 58,â€

you gotta be kidding me wrote:even his lesser films like Antonio Gaudi or Rikyu are masterful and hypnotic.

I agree with almost everything you said, except regarding these two films as lesser. In many ways, I find them more compelling than his Abe films, particularly Antonio Gaudi. As much as I enjoy Abe's novels, I think that its the Takemitsu/Teshigahara collaboration that makes all of these films so rich.

All three films in this set are wonderful. I don't understand what some of the grumbling is about (outside of the double-dipping complaints). Skeptics owe it to themselves to rent or netflix these films. I don't think they'll be disappointed.

blindside8zao wrote:so should all these comments indicate to me that the other two films aren't anywhere near as good as woman?

They are absolutely as good as DUNES, which is why we all couldn't wait for CC and sprung for perfectly wonderful MoC releases of them.

HerrSchreck wrote:

blindside8zao wrote:so should all these comments indicate to me that the other two films aren't anywhere near as good as woman?

They are absolutely as good as DUNES, which is why we all couldn't wait for CC and sprung for perfectly wonderful MoC releases of them.

[insert endlessly weeping emoticon here]

My disappointment with the Criterion box set relates to not what it includes but what it excludes. The one film in my otherwise wonderful Asmic Box not subtitled in English was Ruined Map. If Criterion had included that, it would have added value to consumers like me. As it is, those who have the Asmic will not be particularly enthused about the Criterion; those who have MoC's will be irritated that Woman in the Dunes is not available separately. Those who buy strictly Region 1 offerings will be delighted by the Criterion.

With all due respect kekid, though I agree with you (and have no sympathy for those without multi region DVD players or who do not unlock them), these same complaints have appeared and been discussed in this and other threads ad nauseam. The titles may change but the gist of the conversation remains constant...

kekid wrote:My disappointment with the Criterion box set relates to not what it includes but what it excludes. The one film in my otherwise wonderful Asmic Box not subtitled in English was Ruined Map. If Criterion had included that, it would have added value to consumers like me. As it is, those who have the Asmic will not be particularly enthused about the Criterion; those who have MoC's will be irritated that Woman in the Dunes is not available separately. Those who buy strictly Region 1 offerings will be delighted by the Criterion.

Since you own the Asmik Box, and as far as I know it included not only the short films in the forthcoming Criterion set, but even some that are unique to the Asmik Box, could you provide any comments on these short films included in the Asmik Box. Are they subtitled?