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hearthesilence wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 10:36 pm Why does this keep happening? (It's not happening to every title, but it shouldn't be recurring with this kind of frequency.) Is it related to a specific pressing plant?

No clear answer, unfortunately. Folks on the other forum have noted scratches on discs manufactured at a particular plant, but I don't think it can be attributed solely to that. Lightly scratched discs usually play without issue. I agree that it's a bad look for a relatively expensive product, but, like slightly warped vinyl, if it plays, it stays.

My thought is that the Winchester issues are due to lacking player support. Firmware updates are rare, so it follows that playback issues that could be patched remain unresolved. I have a Sony X700, which has a known issue that sometimes causes slight freezing or skipping as triple-layer UHDs transition between their second and third layers. While discs usually play cleanly, skips and freezes usually occur in the back third of a movie, and they don't tend to repeat if I rewind a bit and replay the scene.

This makes Winchester an outlier, which is why I responded here and checked in on the other forum. It's a dual-layer disc, the skip occurs in the first third of the film, and the disc consistently skips. I appreciate the replies--it's reassuring to know that this is not an isolated issue--and hope people are able to get new copies that play through properly.

More reports of the disc skipping at the 29 minute mark on Panasonic and Oppo players and the clean up not working for everyone.

Mr Muckle wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 4:12 pm

Yakushima wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:35 am I played my 4K disc on OPPO UDP-203, and it froze for about 2 seconds at the 29:30 mark.

My 4K disc pauses at the exact same spot, 29:30, on my OPPO UDP-203, both before and after cleaning the disc. I've replied to Criterion's last email, instructing me to clean the disc and check firmware, will see what their reply is tomorrow, March 31.

I was given the usual instructions, mark the disc in Sharpie with my name and the date, and send the photo to Criterion. I will be sent a tested disc within 2-3 weeks.

Since it's still not a 'known' issue according to Criterion, what are the chances any of these replacement discs are going to be corrected and play right?

therewillbeblus wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:02 pm Since it's still not a 'known' issue according to Criterion, what are the chances any of these replacement discs are going to be corrected and play right?

I mean, they’re clearly saying they’re sending TESTED discs.

Mr Muckle wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:54 pm

Mr Muckle wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 4:12 pm

Yakushima wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:35 am I played my 4K disc on OPPO UDP-203, and it froze for about 2 seconds at the 29:30 mark.

My 4K disc pauses at the exact same spot, 29:30, on my OPPO UDP-203, both before and after cleaning the disc. I've replied to Criterion's last email, instructing me to clean the disc and check firmware, will see what their reply is tomorrow, March 31.

I was given the usual instructions, mark the disc in Sharpie with my name and the date, and send the photo to Criterion. I will be sent a tested disc within 2-3 weeks.

I was not offered a replacement at all, just their dreaded boilerplate suggestions.

"Thanks so much for reaching out, though we're sorry to hear your WINCHESTER 73 4K UHD disc is giving you some trouble. I'm happy to help.
There are currently no known issues for this title, so let's try a few troubleshooting steps to see if these might resolve what you're seeing." ](*,)

Yakushima wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 3:15 pm

Mr Muckle wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:54 pm

Mr Muckle wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 4:12 pm

My 4K disc pauses at the exact same spot, 29:30, on my OPPO UDP-203, both before and after cleaning the disc. I've replied to Criterion's last email, instructing me to clean the disc and check firmware, will see what their reply is tomorrow, March 31.

I was given the usual instructions, mark the disc in Sharpie with my name and the date, and send the photo to Criterion. I will be sent a tested disc within 2-3 weeks.

I was not offered a replacement at all, just their dreaded boilerplate suggestions.

"Thanks so much for reaching out, though we're sorry to hear your WINCHESTER 73 4K UHD disc is giving you some trouble. I'm happy to help.
There are currently no known issues for this title, so let's try a few troubleshooting steps to see if these might resolve what you're seeing." ](*,)

Initially, I received the same response that you did, but once I got back to them a second time, letting them know that I had tried their troubleshooting suggestions without success, they then offered to send a replacement, once I emailed them a photo of my marked up disc.

After reading about the glitch @ 29:30, I played Winchester 73 last night on my Oppo 203 and had the exact same problem at that spot.
I wrote Criterion today and got back the same swill everyone else has reported.
Not done with this yet. Hopefully will get a replacement.

I said this upthread, but if you state that you tried cleaning the disc, etc. in your initial email, they won't initiate a back-and-forth. Make this easier on yourselves!

Mr Muckle wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 6:47 pm

Yakushima wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 3:15 pm

Mr Muckle wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:54 pm

I was given the usual instructions, mark the disc in Sharpie with my name and the date, and send the photo to Criterion. I will be sent a tested disc within 2-3 weeks.

I was not offered a replacement at all, just their dreaded boilerplate suggestions.

"Thanks so much for reaching out, though we're sorry to hear your WINCHESTER 73 4K UHD disc is giving you some trouble. I'm happy to help.
There are currently no known issues for this title, so let's try a few troubleshooting steps to see if these might resolve what you're seeing." ](*,)

Initially, I received the same response that you did, but once I got back to them a second time, letting them know that I had tried their troubleshooting suggestions without success, they then offered to send a replacement, once I emailed them a photo of my marked up disc.

Same here!

Watched my copy this weekend, grateful I had no skipping issues.

FWIW (I'm aware that this thread is becoming a poll of sorts on the skipping issues) I had no issues during my viewing.

Hello all!
Unfortunately I have to report that my copy (purchased new from Amazon on April 7) does have this issue - Image freeze for about 15 seconds starting at exactly 29:30 (card game between the Indian Trader and Dutch) - Disk was cleaned and issue happens every single time. Player is Sony UBP-X800M2 (which has never given me issues before). I will be contacting Criterion for a replacement disk.

UPDATE 4/16: as others have reported, I contacted Criterion a few days ago and they confirmed replication of the issue. Confirmed replacement disk with no hassle and I just got the USPS tracking. First time dealing with their customer service and I have to say, I am impressed!

My replacement disc arrived today and played back flawlessly both during the widely reported scene before the half hour mark and the Indian attack on the camp at the 50 mark where the skipping occured on my original 4K copy. The film looks so gorgeous in SDR that I hope they get to other Mann/Stewart westerns soon (though obviously Bend of the River won't be happening soon as I think Kino said they'd reissue their BD with a new 4K scan).

Finch wrote: Tue Apr 15, 2025 2:18 am My replacement disc arrived today and played back flawlessly both during the widely reported scene before the half hour mark and the Indian attack on the camp at the 50 mark where the skipping occured on my original 4K copy. The film looks so gorgeous in SDR that I hope they get to other Mann/Stewart westerns soon (though obviously Bend of the River won't be happening soon as I think Kino said they'd reissue their BD with a new 4K scan).

Same here. I got my replacement disc today, and it plays fine.

Yep good replacements, doing their job

Put in for my replacement today. In Criterion’s reply, they confirmed that they had been able to replicate the issue, which affects “selected copies” of the UHD and that they have “corrected replacements.”

Relieved it wasn’t a player issue, I suppose, and also that I will be able to watch the (terrific!) film without interruption.

Received my replacement copy earlier this week, checked the scene that had frozen for me on the original disc, at 29:30, and the replacement played through without any issues. Thank you, Criterion.

I got this from B&N and had no issues playing the UHD at 29:30 on my Oppo, so presumably replacement discs are out in the wild

I enjoyed listening to Jimmy Stewart on the commentary track. It’s fortunate to have a track with old Hollywood represented. But Criterion missed an opportunity to have a second track with someone scholarly for this Mann gem.

I chuckled when at the end Stewart said this laser thing is interesting

Looks like I have one of the defective UHD discs that freezes during that poker game. Luckily they also screened this at MoMA today albeit in the middle of a bad storm.

I usually see or read people discuss Stewart's character in this film, but for a large part of the film, perhaps even the majority, he's either absent or playing scenes that don't tap into the neurotic aspects of his character (which to be clear remains a compelling part of his performance). I haven't checked out the commentary track yet so I'm not sure if they discuss this, but I imagine there must be writings that focus on what this film has to say about guns or its place in American culture.

Maybe it seems too obvious of an approach given that the film is named after a gun and a gun is the central object of the entire plot, but given how the debate over guns has played out over the past two decades, what the film shows does strike a nerve. The necessity of guns in this world is depicted as unavoidable, but so is the uncontrollable violence that's inseparable from them. Despite the honor or moral code people try to bestow on the Winchester, it feels in vain - it's a gun that's meant to be earned honorably, but it constantly changes hands through larcenous, mendacious or violent means, and they feel like inevitable outcomes that surround instruments of violence.