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Rich Malloy wrote:Criterion should know better than to waste their time and resources to revisit a minor film by a minor filmmaker when there are masterpieces yet to emerge, and others in dire need of revisiting. I'll just throw and "Andrei Rublev" out there, and also make timely mention of "The Seventh Seal", two films that are screaming out for better releases.

You neglected to use the form, Rich.

Well, just to put the whole thing into perspective, this is being distributed through Buena Vista but produced by Criterion. Buena Vista and Smith wanted to do a 10th Anniversary edition anyway, but they still have an arrangement with Criterion. Doing the edition without Criterion's involvement would effectively put the existing edition out of print anyway, so why bother saying no? This way everyone who would be buying the new release anyway benefits and nothing goes out of print. So why the complaining?

Every time a relatively recent or B-grade film comes out on the Criterion label, a handful of people go down the roll call of neglected films or directors and screams "Why?! Why not so and so?!?" The whole point of Criterion's mission statement is to promote the diversity of influential and important films, which Kevin Smith certainly falls into whether you like his movies or not. Criterion certainly hasn't been slacking this year in the selection department, so you can throw the whole "time better spent" argument out the window as well.

The fact that it's a "collection" invites exactly this debate on precisely the terms you mention. Surely, a single film from any single director will add to the "diversity" of the collection, but that alone is insufficient reason. After all, a Steven Segal movie would make the Collection "more diverse".

So, "influential" and "important"? Are you trying to make me choke on my coffee? It's neither. It's not even a milepost in Kevin Smith's journey from neophyte to great filmmaker, as he remains firmly stuck in neutral, reapplying the same tired tropes and characters in the same adolescent gestures, mistaking vulgarity for transgressiveness and mawkish sentimentality for true emotion. An entire DVD's worth of "scholarship" on a fading object of fanboy worship is time wasted... even if that time is otherwise spent on absolutely nothing at all.

Rich Malloy wrote:So, "influential" and "important"? Are you trying to make me choke on my coffee? It's neither. It's not even a milepost in Kevin Smith's journey from neophyte to great filmmaker, as he remains firmly stuck in neutral, reapplying the same tired tropes and characters in the same adolescent gestures, mistaking vulgarity for transgressiveness and mawkish sentimentality for true emotion. An entire DVD's worth of "scholarship" on a fading object of fanboy worship is time wasted... even if that time is otherwise spent on absolutely nothing at all.

Sounds like someone was suckered into watching the Clerks II bonus disc.

This is great guys, we're really showing them!
Another dozen messages and Maybe Smith himself might pause and stop screwing his incredibly hot wife and spending his millions of dollars just long enough to reflect on his life and give up directing forever...

His wife is far, very far, from incredibly hot.

His wife is to hot as his movies are to good.

Wait...you don't like his wife??
He's probably going to top himself if he finds out...

Jesus, listening to people slag off Kevin Smith is so fucking boring. We get that a lot of you don't like him, get over it. Arsonfilms' recent post really should be the end of this matter. If people have new or interesting points to make about him, or maybe even about Chasing Amy itself, they'd be sorely welcome whether good or bad.
But if you really have enough time on your hands to come here and repeat ad nauseum that Smith doesn't belong in the Criterion Collection, you really need to just get out more.

So, go somewhere else if you find our slagging so boring. As for myself, there's nothing more tedious than a bunch of provincial viewaskewbians hailing Kevin Smith's cinematic prowess. Stick up for your boy, if you want, or go somewhere else and preach to the choir.

And I get out plenty. Plenty enough to recognize that Smith's little subset of suburban juvenilia, much like his fanbase, remains mired in a state of eternal adolescence, a collection of transgressive poses leavened with saccharine doses of mawkish sentiment and self-pity. He shot his wad with "Clerks", and found himself with nothing left to say, and repeats his empty observations by way of clumsy soliloquies and clumsier dialogs that his fanbase somehow mistakes for true colloquialism and true emotion. I'm calling shenanigans on this talentless dweeb and his dwindling and pathetic fanbase.

But I'll honor your defense of him and submit that I've been wrong before. So, prove me wrong again. If you're bored with our lack of "new and interesting points to make", then damn well make some of your own. I await your canonization of Kevin.

jt wrote:This is great guys, we're really showing them!
Another dozen messages and Maybe Smith himself might pause and stop screwing his incredibly hot wife and spending his millions of dollars just long enough to reflect on his life and give up directing forever...

No, but odds are that Smith will exact 'revenge' in his next movie by slagging off everybody in this forum who dissed him; that's more his style. Our continual bitching about Smith's debatable merits as a filmmaker are far less annoying than a director who uses his movies as a vehicle to fire back at his detractors, which is basically what Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back did for an hour or so.

So look out, Rich and Domino; Kevin Smith is gonna call you out in his next film!!!!

Luke M wrote:His wife is far, very far, from incredibly hot.

Infact she's quite fugly, and he makes us suffer through her uglyness when he puts her in a movie.

One thing about Kevin Smith I really can't stand is that he'll go on his forums and blog, and bitch about his own movies and that they suck, but then the crowds of fanboys come to tell him "It's okay, you ARE talented". Can't stand that for the life of me.

So he doesn't make serious films?

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:

Luke M wrote:His wife is far, very far, from incredibly hot.

Infact she's quite fugly, and he makes us suffer through her uglyness when he puts her in a movie.

One thing about Kevin Smith I really can't stand is that he'll go on his forums and blog, and bitch about his own movies and that they suck, but then the crowds of fanboys come to tell him "It's okay, you ARE talented". Can't stand that for the life of me.

The eight minute standing ovation at Cannes shocked me as well.

I think that there are some films that are in the collection simply because of the fact that they polarize viewers and spark debate, a feat that Chasing Amy seems to have accomplished, at least on this forum…

It really doesn't bother me that Chasing Amy is in the collection; it'll always be better than Armageddon.

But I think Smith's oeuvre suffers much more in hindsight. I liked his first three movies, but even in Amy it was becoming apparent that he's a one-trick pony. I'm clearly not the most sophisticated movie-fan, so when I figured that out, I couldn't understand why so many other people couldn't figure it out, too. But then they wouldn't be fanboys, would they?

And I suppose that's my real problem with Kevin Smith. It's not his movies, because if everybody had a proper sense of perspective, he wouldn't be so polarizing. It's that he's got this legion of comic-reading fanboys whose adoration of a fairly inconsequential filmmaker has elevated his reputation and generated more controversy than Smith's actual work warrants. So I blame the Kevin Smith phenomenon on the fanboys much more than Smith himself.

LeeB.Sims wrote:I think that there are some films that are in the collection simply because of the fact that they polarize viewers and spark debate, a feat that Chasing Amy seems to have accomplished, at least on this forum…

I doubt there would be much of a debate on this forum if Criterion had ignored the movie from the get go. We can't justify Criterion's inclusion of bad films under their label simply because the very act of including them instigates an argument.

The day Criterion puts a Shyamalan film in the collection, we may have a similar debate. Until then, we don't have to discuss his crap because most people understand that it's crap.

Rich Malloy wrote:So, go somewhere else if you find our slagging so boring. As for myself, there's nothing more tedious than a bunch of provincial viewaskewbians hailing Kevin Smith's cinematic prowess. Stick up for your boy, if you want, or go somewhere else and preach to the choir.

......

But I'll honor your defense of him and submit that I've been wrong before. So, prove me wrong again. If you're bored with our lack of "new and interesting points to make", then damn well make some of your own. I await your canonization of Kevin.

I can't see any rabid Kevin Smith fans on this forum, can you? As to my 'defense of him', I'm not sure what you've been reading but I haven't suggested that I even like him, (for the record, I enjoyed Chasing Amy but won't be buying this new release).

I come to this forum to read intelligent and insightful posts by people I respect and increase my knowledge on film. My problem with this thread is not that people don't like Smith, but that they don't discuss the film itself, they just repeat the same tired criticisms that all boil down to: 'I don't like Kevin Smith or his films and I don't think he should be in the Criterion Collection'. Surely everyone here is intelligent enough to realise why the CC occasionally puts out releases like this? We know it will be a big seller and as arsonfilms pointed out earlier, it won't cost much to produce, will sell well and hence pay for the restoration of a film I'm sure you will approve of.

My posts here were aimed at stemming the flow of anti-Smith outpouring that was inevitable from the announcement of this release. Ad hominem attacks on Smith, his wife, his early films, his later films (in fact, almost everything about him except for actual discussion of Chasing Amy itself) etc have no place on this forum. They don't benefit anybody who reads them, they're not particularly amusing and there isn't even someone sticking up for him, so you're effectively arguing against yourself (you mentioned 'preaching to the choir').

Do you really think there's someone prowling round the forum who doesn't know who Kevin Smith is? Who is wondering if Chasing Amy is a good film? Will your posts help that person make an informed decision? If not, why bother posting? Jesus, taking shots at Smith is like shooting fish in a barrel, what's the point? If I nip over to the Michael Bay thread, will I find your highschool thesis on his transgressive use of explosions..?

But, I will admit defeat. It's not my job to police the forum so I will take your advise and just ignore this thread from now on, taking the risk that I may miss out on some informed, amusing and enlightening discussion on the film in question...

I agree with you completely jt. At least if people are going to pointlessly moan about the 20 or so dodgy titles in a catalogue of over 400 they could have the good grace to use the template that has been kindly provided.

Why does this thread have a lower sense of morality than the Mafia?
Because the Mafia will never go after your wife.

I can't imagine that Criterion is investing many resources into the re-release. I'm thinking that Smith has most of the bonus footage himself, and would be heavily involved in producing it also.

It's not like Criterion is sending people into the sewers of Venice for some long-lost pre-WWII footage that may or may not exist, and then hiring scholars to piece together Smith's "vision."

The film is only ten years old -- everything is there, and it's just going to be slapped onto another disc with a different cover and new logo.

Let's keep the hate.

Luke M wrote:Let's keep the hate.

Ha, that was you?

Reading it he points out how the framing is screwed up in the DVD transfer. Maybe Criterion will be updating the DVD as well as adding a bonus DVD.

Reading Criterion Contraption taught me an important lesson: Kevin Smith will show you how not to write dialogue.