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Holy crap, this film has rated 8.8 out of 10 on imdb! Is it really that good? I refused to see it at first because I didn't want to see a mediocre Herzog movie, but now, maybe I'll give it a chance.

Wonderful insight into the film che-etienne. I'm seeing the film on Monday and your piece is making me all the more excited. Thanks.

Yeah, che-etienne, I also have to thank you. Your post was eloquent and the counter-arguments were both thorough and well expanded upon. I hope you continue to contribute such wonderful articles here.

Crowd pleaser? Please. My crowd booed. There were numerous opportunities for action sequences (e.g. the rescue itself) that were not exploited. And the lefties that are likely to go to this thing will hardly cheer the awkward ending.

As a Herzog fiction film, I would place it at or near the bottom of his work product. (I don't remember anything about Invincible other than that I didn't want to remember anything about it.) The first 10 minutes are unwatchable (other than the cool bombing sequence) and as a pro-war activist I had no issue with the tone of the ending, just with the lameness of the execution.

The P.O.W. camp and escape sequences are brilliant, beautifully photographed and very engaging. The acting was fine, particularly given that the dialogue is frequently off-key.

A-

Barmy wrote:Crowd pleaser? Please. My crowd booed. There were numerous opportunities for action sequences (e.g. the rescue itself) that were not exploited. And the lefties that are likely to go to this thing will hardly cheer the awkward ending.

I have been warned before not to take anything you say seriously, but "lefties"? So after reading a post that well thought out, you're going to try derailing a serious critique of a master craftsman with political hooey. How wonderfully mature.

I find it hard to figure out whether barmy is just an extremely sophisticated troll -- or just just deranged.

Michael Kerpan wrote:I find it hard to figure out whether barmy is just an extremely sophisticated troll -- or just just deranged.

Are those two things mutually exclusive?

Unfortunately, at least in Manhattan, Rescue Dawn is being distributed as an art movie. It's playing on tiny screens in two arthouses that are frequented almost exclusively by raguing Bush haters, and one normal theater on the Upper East Side on a huge screen (a necessary format for this type of film), where I saw it. Arthouse habitués generally tend to be lefties and are not going to be "pleased" with the Top Gun ending. What is controversial about that?

This may end up in my Top Ten list so I am hardly against the film. It is extremely flawed, but in a sincere, endearing way.

Edited: I just noticed the typo of raging but it seems right somehow.

You think it's one of Herzog's worst films yet you gave it an A- and think it'll end up on your 2007 top ten list? Whaa..? I guess Herzog's shit must smell sweet.

Barmy wrote:as a pro-war activist I had no issue with the tone of the ending

I've never met a pro-war activist before; why don't you become active over in Iraq? They're looking for a few good men.

Uh-oh.

Werner LIED

He's the German Michael Moore.

Oh, brother. Every time you make a cut, you've omitted something. When you choose to place the camera here rather than there, when you frame a subject in close up, medium, or long shot, when you add music or a voiceover, or what if (heaven forbid) you ask your subject to repeat something or clarify - is that lying as well? Even the great Frederick Wiseman, who avoids many of the aforementioned practices, prefers to call his films 'reality fictions.'

You might agree or disagree with Herzog's practice of staging certain events or suggesting his documentary subjects take a certain line of action, but the fact that he's openly discussing this in a book length interview says to me it's not exactly a scandal. "Uh-oh" my ass, Werner has been giving his 'ecstatic truth' spiel for years.

Barmy wrote:Werner LIED

Oh my god! You've posted a link to old interviews with Herzog where he admits to altering the aesthetic reality of his documentaries. I guess all I can say is...

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST DECADE?

Please stop trying to blow our minds with your epiphanies. Why do you think he got involved with Incident at Loch Ness in the first place? Jesus.

DrewReiber wrote:

Barmy wrote:Werner LIED

Oh my god! You've posted a link to old interviews with Herzog where he admits to altering the aesthetic reality of his documentaries. I guess all I can say is...

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST DECADE?

Please stop trying to blow our minds with your epiphanies. Why do you think he got involved with Incident at Loch Ness in the first place? Jesus.

The last decade? Werner's been doing it gleefully since he started making movies 40 years ago.

tavernier wrote:The last decade? Werner's been doing it gleefully since he started making movies 40 years ago.

Yes, I know. I studied under a friend of Herzog's, from his college days. I'm just trying to simply things for Barmy's sake, because his lack of knowledge on the subject is hilarious considering his posts. I figured with the availability of Herzog commentaries and the growth of research about him on the Internet, he's had more than enough opportunities to learn more about the director in *the last decade*.

DrewReiber wrote:

tavernier wrote:The last decade? Werner's been doing it gleefully since he started making movies 40 years ago.

Yes, I know. I studied under a friend of Herzog's, from his college days. I'm just trying to simply things for Barmy's sake, because his lack of knowledge on the subject is hilarious considering his posts. I figured with the availability of Herzog commentaries and the growth of research about him on the Internet, he's had more than enough opportunities to learn more about the director in *the last decade*.

Touche!

DrewReiber wrote:I figured with the availability of Herzog commentaries...

Speaking of which, do you know what I did last fall? I ripped every single commentary he had ever done to MP3, burned them all onto one CD, and drove around for a few weeks listening to just him. He's phenomenal, folks. There's no better way to enjoy listening to him! "That's a good toss..."

exte wrote:

DrewReiber wrote:I figured with the availability of Herzog commentaries...

Speaking of which, do you know what I did last fall? I ripped every single commentary he had ever done to MP3, burned them all onto one CD, and drove around for a few weeks listening to just him. He's phenomenal, folks. There's no better way to enjoy listening to him! "That's a good toss..."

That's a little too much Herzog for me...

Dearest Drew you are severely irony challenged. Obviously "Werner LIED" is a parody of "Bush LIED". Duh. Also I am a film fan, not a film scholar. So the bits in that article were actually news to me, and possibly news to other people who have a life.

tavernier wrote:

exte wrote:

DrewReiber wrote:I figured with the availability of Herzog commentaries...

Speaking of which, do you know what I did last fall? I ripped every single commentary he had ever done to MP3, burned them all onto one CD, and drove around for a few weeks listening to just him. He's phenomenal, folks. There's no better way to enjoy listening to him! "That's a good toss..."

That's a little too much Herzog for me...

I don't know if I would do that for all my Herzog commentaries but certainly some of the others I have unfortunately neglected. Unfortunately I am technical idiot, can you tell me how you extracted the commentaries? It's probably quite simple and if I tried could probably do it, but like an old man I have absolutely no patience with machines. Thanks.

Watch Elton Brand talk awkwardly about Rescue Dawn. This is almost painful

That Brand interview is funny. Especially when that face asks him his passion in life when he is an NBA basketball player. It is too bad it is not with someone who knows anything and could've asked him if he could name another Herzog film.

Barmy wrote:"Werner LIED" is a parody of "Bush LIED"

Hmm. Not really seeing the connection between an internationally-respected filmmaker and a mass-murdering oil-monger myself.

Nothing wrote:

Barmy wrote:"Werner LIED" is a parody of "Bush LIED"

Hmm. Not really seeing the connection between an internationally-respected filmmaker and a mass-murdering oil-monger myself.

You have to understand that Barmy is still drinking the Bush-Cheney kool-aid.