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Those are some of the worst subtitles I have seen. They look similar to the yellow subtitles with no border on the "Style Wars" DVD, which against anything yellowish was unreadable. Criterion was game for releasing it like that?

Abulafia wrote:Looking at the timing on the CC disc on Beaver, I'm not convinced that the warmer tones are what was originally shot. Anderson, on a number of occasions, has pointed out that Bottle Rocket was a lot more minimalistic and muted than his subsequent pictures. It feels a little like the grade has been matched to Rushmore onward, though I must confess I have never seen the film projected.

You've never seen BOTTLE ROCKET on 35mm and you're claiming Anderson and the cinematographer's personally supervised Criterion color-timing is inaccurate? Because of some random comment Wes once made about minimalism?

Look at those caps. One looks normal, the other looks like the golden tint Anderson films his movies in now. Seems like revisionism to me

domino harvey wrote:Look at those caps. One looks normal, the other looks like the golden tint Anderson films his movies in now. Seems like revisionism to me

I've seen BOTTLE ROCKET on 35mm pretty recently. I think the single-layered Sony disc looks unduly cold and washed out. No one should use it as a barometer to measure the Criterion DVD's accuracy.

jaredsap wrote:

domino harvey wrote:Look at those caps. One looks normal, the other looks like the golden tint Anderson films his movies in now. Seems like revisionism to me

I've seen BOTTLE ROCKET on 35mm pretty recently. I think the single-layered Sony disc looks unduly cold and washed out. No one should use it as a barometer to measure the Criterion DVD's accuracy.

I wouldn't put some color-timing revisionism past Anderson, but the close-up Columbia disc caps of Owen Wilson and Bob Musgrave looking so beet-ish make it hard for me to think that the Columbia disc represents the way the film was originally shot (unless a more "muted" look entails way-off skin tones).

The yellow subs would annoy me a lot more were it a film I needed to use subs for. However, I really hope yellow subs are just a quirk limited to this release, it would drive me crazy if they started using them.

I think the color pallete will look a lot better in motion than it does in those caps. I'm optimistic.

If those subs used the Futura typeface, nobody would care if they were yellow.

It may be that the beta/data that CC is using has originated with the licensing studio. Sometimes when they license titles from one of the big Hollywood studios they don't reun the telecine (or maybe they'll just sit in on the session), and materials are simply forwarded to them, to which they'll add whatever original extras, etc. So maybe those awful yellow subs originated from the licensing studio?

I know it doesn't really make sense.. for example when CC licensed the SD Thieves Highway & Night and the City from Fox, the discs subs didn't exhibit the yellow of other Fox Noir releases.

But it doesn't make sense, period. So I'm trying to think of something that has a whiff of an explanation. God help us if their foreign-film BD's adopt this color scheme... ach, schtinky. Can you imagine sitting through, say, a BD of La Regle de Jeu, or Bresson's Diary of.. enjoying the silvery tones of the b&w patina, and blaring yellow subs disrupt the mood of the thing? Scheiße!

I'm like 99% positive this was a Wes Anderson-mandated addition, I wouldn't expect it show up on any other titles

I'm sure it has more to do with licencing from Sony. Maybe Sony requires it (if I recall ALL of their releases have yellow subs.) I highly doubt Anderson would say he wants yellow subs when a majority of people won't use them. Unless he really wants to irritate people that are hearing-impaired.

domino harvey wrote:I'm like 99% positive this was a Wes Anderson-mandated addition, I wouldn't expect it show up on any other titles

What do you mean by that-- or rather, what makes you say that.. not to mention to that degree of certainty? Are Anderson's other releases in the CC yellow-subbed too? Has the guy said that he likes yellow subs over white?

The only Anderson I've seen is Tennenbaums, which I saw in the cinema, so I can't say I've seen any of his dvd's on any label, so I cant speak with any authority. But I can't see CC surrendering control of technical features like subs to a director, so that he can make some kind of eclectic statement.

My hunch is they just went with what was provided to them by Sony.

cdnchris wrote:I'm sure it has more to do with licencing from Sony. Maybe Sony requires it (if I recall ALL of their releases have yellow subs.) I highly doubt Anderson would say he wants yellow subs when a majority of people won't use them. Unless he really wants to irritate people that are hearing-impaired.

I'm positive it's Sony's doing. I've never seen a Sony title without yellow subs.

HerrSchreck wrote:God help us if their foreign-film BD's adopt this color scheme... ach, schtinky. Can you imagine sitting through, say, a BD of La Regle de Jeu, or Bresson's Diary of.. enjoying the silvery tones of the b&w patina, and blaring yellow subs disrupt the mood of the thing? Scheiße!

I can perhaps understand complaints of yellow subs for color films, (doesn't actually bother me personally) but for B&W films it seems to me the solution is very simple...just turn the color all the way down on your TV.

Not only do I do that for subs, but for removal of chroma, particularly dvd-R's and analog sourced transfers.

I don't prefer doing this because there's an occasional slight gun-metal aqua color to certain B&W film stocks & transfers that gets removed. It's evident in prints in the cinema too-- I've seen b&w that was nearly blue & white, some close to dark green & white, sometimes almost brown and white for older prints.

... ach

Scheiße!

Verdammt Schreck, your german is really getting better from day to day - especially the

... ach

in this context shows some undoubtful cultural empathy and is miles ahead of the loose usage of The German Angst. Props!

All undoubtful points.

From: Jon Mulvaney [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Subtitles

Hello Michael,

I do not believe that yellow subtitles will become the norm on other Criterion releases.

Best,

JM

i went to best buy, future shop and a local place. none of them had it. did it get pushed back?

Nope. Find better stores.

HTF blu-ray review:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/ht- ... ocket.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Say what you will about Anderson, or about the film, but this is one of the most complete Criterion releases this year. The booklet is composed so nicely and so meticulously, and there are so many damn bonus features!

The AV Club interviews Wes Anderson.

On the extras, make sure that you don't miss the 28 minute documentary, Murita Cycles, by Barry Braverman, which focuses on his father, a Staten Island bike repairman/junkman/local character. I'm not going to forget Murray Braverman any time soon. Really a fascinating and at times heart-rending film. Barry Braverman was a collaborator (and producer?) on Bottle Rocket, and also conducts the 2008 interviews with the cast members.

I haven't bought the Criterion-dvd yet, but apparently there are some edits.