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Yep, almost certain the Brits only say "Bet". Interesting that Bette Midler isn't pronounced "Betty".

Swift wrote:Yep, almost certain the Brits only say "Bet". Interesting that Bette Midler isn't pronounced "Betty".

I have no actual evidence as to how the French pronounce it, but I’d have assumed “Bet”. Anyone know for certain?

I've mostly heard it as Bet, yes.

Not a source of truth, especially, but the very American Bob Dylan pronounces it "Betty" Davis in 'Desolation Row'.

In the 1967 interview with Joan Crawford (an extra on Baby Jane) BBC interviewer Philip Jenkinson refers to "Bet Davis" and Crawford interrupts: "She'd kill you if she heard you say 'Bet'!"

But as Matt says, it used to be common, at least in the UK, to refer her as "Bet". My mother, who was born in the 1920s and saw most of her Warner films on first UK release, always called her "Bet" but my impression was that she wasn't (mis)pronouncing "Bette" but abbreviating it to "Bet" (c.f. referring to Katharine Hepburn as "Kate"). Mother liked films with strong, independent females (in the '30s she and her friends loved the tomboyish Jane Withers but hated Shirley Temple) and I think the hard sound of "Bet" seemed more appropriate to her than the feminine-sounding "Betty".

I’m pretty sure I’ve never heard any other Australians pronounce her name as anything other than “Betty”. At least, I’ve always read it that way, but Australian english has influences from both sides of the Atlantic.

jegharfangetmigenmyg wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:46 am Not a source of truth, especially, but the very American Bob Dylan pronounces it "Betty" Davis in 'Desolation Row'.

In the song, as sung by Kim Carnes at least, it's "Betty" Davis Eyes. Though pronouncing it "Bet" would lose a syllable and cause scansion problems. Written by Americans FWIW (Donna Weiss and Jackie DeShannon).

Bette got me thinking.. although he's well-known beyond cinephile circles (at least among boomers and older), Jimmy Stewart is only ever referred to as James Stewart here in Denmark. Same thing with Cagney.

(Marilyn) Monroe is pronounced Monroe here, traditionally.

Just the other day, I watched a New York-set episode of Jeeves and Wooster in which Stephen Fry as Jeeves mentions meeting a young American actress named “Bet” Davis. Despite his being British, it seemed a bit odd, since presumably she would have introduced herself as “Betty.”

Such great responses. I truly had no idea how commonly, even if non-standard, her name is pronounced "Bet."

I'm still puzzled by Blanchett-as-Hepburn saying "Bet" in The Aviator, though...unless Hepburn's use of a Britishism is supposed to be one of the quirks of her mid-Atlantic accent (or simply one of the quirks of her personality). I'd be so curious to know if it can be confirmed somewhere that the real Hepburn said it that way.

Probably just how Blanchet pronounced it in real life and Schoonmake-Scorsese either liked it or didn’t notice.

I can't recall the context of the remark in The Aviator but William Mann's biography of Hepburn has a lot to say about her jealousy of and rivalry with Davis, including quotes from friends ("the fact that they were both from New England made it worse," said one). It seemed to begin in 1934 with Davis' triumph in Of Human Bondage and persisted until at least 1979 when they were both up for Emmy awards and Davis won (ironically, Hepburn's nomination was for the role in The Corn is Green that Davis had filmed decades earlier). Davis wanted a joint photo of them for Life, even hoped to find a joint project, but Hepburn refused. So whenever she talked about Davis (which seems unlikely in interviews) she might well have deliberately used the wrong pronunciation!

Very interesting, Jonathan. That would track with the scene in The Aviator where Hepburn throws a fit when Howard Hughes is romantically linked to Davis in the tabloids.

Bette Davis and David Letterman discussed the pronunciation of her first name, when she appeared on his show back in 1987. It starts at about the 3:50 mark.

BETTE DAVIS INTERVIEW 1

Ah, so "Bet" is the correct pronunciation, but she for some reason was known as "Betty". That's cleared up now.

Not quite: "Bet" is the correct pronunciation for Bette, as it is a French name—but Bette Davis pronounced her name "Betty" regardless, so "Betty" is the correct pronunciation for her. "Bet" would still be the presumptive correct pronunciation for anyone else whose name is spelled "Bette."

(All that said, I have vague, unsourcable recollections that some friends did call her "Bet" as a shortening of "Betty," not as a "correct pronunciation for those in the know". Perhaps that could be why Hepburn would've called her "Bet" in The Aviator?)

Davis tells Letterman she "accepted Bet" - presumably at some point between 1967 (the Crawford interview quoted above) and this appearance. I don't have either of Davis' autobiographies but maybe they shed some light on her preference at different points in her life.

Apichatpong Weerasethakul's surname is Apichatpong, correct? In just the last two days I've come across two interviews/profiles of the director, one by Eric Kohn, one by Hilton Als, both of whom I would assume would know how to refer to him correctly, and they both repeatedly use "Weerasethakul." Or is it possible that using either name is correct?

Eric Kohn interview for Indiewire: https://www.indiewire.com/features/inte ... 234858429/
Hilton Als profile for The New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022 ... uls-movies

From an essay by Tony Rayns:

"I should clarify why I’m calling the director by his personal name rather than his surname. Many Western commentators and critics refer to him as ‘Weerasethakul’, which isn’t wrong, exactly, but does reflect an unfamiliarity with Thai culture. It’s both courteous and formally correct to address and refer to Thai individuals by their personal name or a nickname. Apichatpong’s nickname, incidentally, is ‘Joe’."

Apichatpong discusses his nickname—or maybe nicknames, since the English and Thai versions sound rather different—at the very start of this podcast, and also provides a clear, syllable-by-syllable pronunciation of his full name.

To get on a small hobbyhorse of mine, I've always found it strange that outlets like the NYT use the Thai convention (first name on second reference, even in formal contexts) in news articles but not in arts coverage. And I'm not picking on the NYT here—I see this all over the place, like the Guardian and the rigorously-copyedited New Yorker. Obviously the news articles are much more likely to be written by people familiar with local norms, but this is something that could easily be covered in the style guide, as is usually done with, say, Chinese and Korean names. (Then again, the Guardian style guide has an entry for Cambodian names that prescribes the use of family names even though Cambodians follow the same convention as Thais, so maybe it's better that they leave it up to the individual writers.)

Swift wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:25 pm Yep, almost certain the Brits only say "Bet". Interesting that Bette Midler isn't pronounced "Betty".

A very late contribution to this discussion, but Midler's name is pronounced that way because her mother had never heard Bette Davis's name spoken out loud and assumed it was pronounced "Bet."

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 6:18 pm A very late contribution to this discussion, but Midler's name is pronounced that way because her mother had never heard Bette Davis's name spoken out loud and assumed it was pronounced "Bet."

That's interesting considering that Midler was born in 1945, when Davis was still at her career height and a topic of, I would assume, some public discussion, plus her name would be mentioned on the radio from time to time. Odd that Midler mère hadn't heard Davis' first name spoken aloud by the time her daughter was born. Guess she wasn't a fan of "The Lux Radio Theatre." (Reading your link after replying, I see that was apparently the case. Show-biz wasn't her mom's thing.)

My parents were young adults at the same time, but I can't remember now how they said her first name. Though I do remember my mother always saying Claudette Colbert's last name with a hard T. When I challenged her pronunciation, she claimed something like, "Well, that's what we all called her," so who knows... I suppose print was so dominant at that time, and people got attached to the way they thought a name was pronounced when they would read it. Of course, Colbert's was a bit different from most; it wasn't American-ized the way so many European last names were then.

Jarmusch. Is it JAR-məsh or jar-MOOSH? Or something else?

Matt wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:04 am Jarmusch. Is it JAR-məsh or jar-MOOSH? Or something else?

Do you have reason to believe it's the second? The only videos I've found of people who've worked with him pronounce it "Jar-mush"

therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:17 am

Matt wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:04 am Jarmusch. Is it JAR-məsh or jar-MOOSH? Or something else?

Do you have reason to believe it's the second? The only videos I've found of people who've worked with him pronounce it "Jar-mush"

Wayne Wang pronounces it “moosh” in his commentary for Smoke

therewillbeblus wrote:

Matt wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:04 amJarmusch. Is it JAR-məsh or jar-MOOSH? Or something else?

Do you have reason to believe it's the second? The only videos I've found of people who've worked with him pronounce it "Jar-mush"

Someone, I don’t remember who, corrected me to jar-MOOSH once several years ago when I said JAR-məsh, so I started saying it the “correct” way. Then I heard Ben Mankiewicz on TCM tonight say JAR-məsh and I thought I’d ask. I should have just gone straight to YouTube.