Eclipse Discussion and Random Speculation

[Gregory]

Kino released it.

[Awesome Welles]

If we see anything from the Dark Continent, it will be Yeelen-- who owns that anyways?

Kino. For other releases from 'The Dark Continent' I would say Sembene and hazard a guess at Ceddo as a possible release.

[What A Disgrace]

If we see anything from the Dark Continent, it will be Yeelen-- who owns that anyways?

Kino. For other releases from 'The Dark Continent' I would say Sembene and hazard a guess at Ceddo as a possible release.

I don't think Ceddo is very likely. I saw a rather fine looking print just last year, as part of a Sembene retrospective, with the usual New Yorker logo.

[Awesome Welles]

So I guess New Yorker own quite a bit of Sembene then?

[What A Disgrace]

So I guess New Yorker own quite a bit of Sembene then?

I would venture to say they own most of his work.

And judging by the quality of the print I saw of Black Girl, and the transfer on their DVD, they don't really care.

[Awesome Welles]

So I guess New Yorker own quite a bit of Sembene then?

I would venture to say they own most of his work.

And judging by the quality of the print I saw of Black Girl, and the transfer on their DVD, they don't really care.

What a disgrace, I've not seen the DVD fortunately I've been toying with buying Xala but it's the kind of thing I want to see rather than own, especially as its New Yorker.

[Michael Kerpan]

So I guess New Yorker own quite a bit of Sembene then?

I would venture to say they own most of his work.

And judging by the quality of the print I saw of Black Girl, and the transfer on their DVD, they don't really care.

A less harsh review of the Black Girl DVD (from Slant)

[Via_Chicago]

So I guess New Yorker own quite a bit of Sembene then?

And judging by the quality of the print I saw of Black Girl, and the transfer on their DVD, they don't really care.

Indeed, New Yorker has the rights to just about every film Sembene ever made save a few documentary features and a few of his shorts. They own the theatrical rights to all of his narrative feature films.

As far as I'm concerned, their two biggest oversights so far have been Emitai and Camp de Thiaroye, easily two of Sembene's greatest films (along with the already-released Black Girl). The current New Yorker releases though, as others have mentioned, are very wanting, and the prints that New Yorker owns, while still possessing good color, are really scratched (although, fortunately, not very damaged otherwise).

I'd love to see a Sembene Eclipse box licensed from New Yorker (if mostly to introduce Sembene to the public at large through the Criterion "brand"), but it's extremely unlikely.

[HerrSchreck]

I think you guys are exaggerating the "bad quality" of the Black Girl NY'er.

Beev review & caps. I'm sure it looks just fine in motion and the age and condition of the elements are a considerable factor.

[Michael Kerpan]

I think you guys are exaggerating the "bad quality" of the Black Girl NY'er..

Why confuse people by trying to put things into (any sort of reasonable) perspective?

;~{

[HerrSchreck]

=D>

[What A Disgrace]

Huh. My mistake. I hadn't actually seen the NYer disc of Black Girl.

But the Beaver makes it fairly clear that the other NYer discs are pretty bad; and the screencaps seem to give evidence of this. Is this an exaggeration?

And to ensure that we stay on topic...since New Yorker is less likely to pursue renewal rights to his films, would an Eclipse set of Idrissa Ouedraogo be an exciting prospect?

[Via_Chicago]

I think you guys are exaggerating the "bad quality" of the Black Girl NY'er.

Beev review & caps. I'm sure it looks just fine in motion and the age and condition of the elements are a considerable factor.

From someone I trust who has seen the disc: "The Beaver caps do no justice to just how bad this transfer is." Black and White can be awfully deceptive y'all...

[Michael Kerpan]

From someone I trust who has seen the disc: "The Beaver caps do no justice to just how bad this transfer is." Black and White can be awfully deceptive y'all...

Do you (or your source) have any knowledge as to what the best available prints look like? If not, you don't really know whether the transfer is good or bad. ;~}

[HerrSchreck]

Thats what I'm thinking. For Gary to salute a New Yorker disc, it's almost as unusual as him saluting a Kino disc-- he's merciless with those guys. He seems to recognize that the PQ is not All That, but is distinguishing the source materials as the culprit, rather than the transfer.

[Michael Kerpan]

Thats what I'm thinking. For Gary to salute a New Yorker disc, it's almost as unusual as him saluting a Kino disc-- he's merciless with those guys. He seems to recognize that the PQ is not All That, but is distinguishing the source materials as the culprit, rather than the transfer.

How does a DVD issuer get across to buyers/would-be buyers/critics the fact that, for some important films (e.g. Mizoguchi's "Story of Late Chrysanthemums", lots of early Oziu, etc.), there is simply no way to release a "good-looking" DVD because there is no source that is (or can be made) reasonably good-looking?

[Via_Chicago]

From someone I trust who has seen the disc: "The Beaver caps do no justice to just how bad this transfer is." Black and White can be awfully deceptive y'all...

Do you (or your source) have any knowledge as to what the best available prints look like? If not, you don't really know whether the transfer is good or bad. ;~}

The 35mm print is actually in pretty good shape. Certainly, the contrast and depth is fine. Like their other Sembene prints though (all of which I've seen in 35mm), it's scratched. However, it was a nicer print than many of their others, and I have to imagine that while it may be the only print of this film in the States, it's not the nicest print available in the world (which isn't of course what New Yorker would be using).

Gary's right to say that "the elements [New Yorker are using] cannot have been in anywhere near pristine condition," but they're certainly not bad by any means. I remember originally seeing his caps and thinking they loooked OK to my eyes, but seeing them again, they are actually pretty bad given what I saw in the cinema a few months ago. It's a super soft transfer, a fact that is definitely evident in screen caps 1, 4, and 6. That is NOT from the print, that's from New Yorker.

The biggest flaw of the Black Girl disc though is that for some strange reason it totally abandons the color sequences. I don't think that they're cut exactly, but again, according to my friend who has seen both the 35mm print and the DVD, these sequences ain't in color, which is a totally nutso thing to have done, especially considering how crucial these sequences are to the film.

My verdict: I don't think there wil ever be another R1 disc of Black Girl, so if you haven't seen this remarkable film, do check this out, even without the color sequences and despite the soft transfer. However, this is definitely not a disc worth spending your hard-earned dollars on, nor is it one reflective of the quality of New Yorker's 35mm print. I did not mean to imply that it's Alpha quality or anything, but it just isn't a good disc. Period.

[PillowRock]

Purely random speculation, or wishful "it might cool if ...."

How about an Eclipse box of Late Weimar Republic? Create English friendly releases of things like Maedchen in Uniform or Viktor und Viktoria.

Just a thought.

[eez28]

So I guess they are taking May off?

[domino harvey]

Well I'd say what, half of the Eclipse titles have been announced at the same time as the Criterions, anything's possible

[criterionaficionado]

I have a gut feeling Eclipse will be taking may off. i am holding out hope for a mizoguchi or naruse boxset though.

[Fan-of-Kurosawa]

The lack of any information or news about the Eclipse release of the Mizoguchi films is getting on my nerves. We have been waiting for them for ages.

I don't know what to do. In the UK there are 2 great MOC releases and another 2 are coming out in April and May. So there will be 8 films in total. Plus, there are the 2 mediocre BFIs. Then there are the 2 Criterions in the States, Ugetsu and Sansho.

I haven't bought anything yet because I don't want to double dip and I am waiting for an Eclipse announcement. If they announce a box set for the summer or autumn I will buy the two Criterions now and wait for the box set. But if the box set will not come out in 2008 or something then I will buy the MOC releases.

Apart from that, are we going to have one or two Mizoguchi box sets? Because I think that the max number in an Eclipse release is 5 films. (Like in the Post-War Kurosawa set). So, if they produce one box set we are going to have 7 films in total. (The 2 Criterions + the 5 Eclipses). Whereas in the UK, taking into account only the great MOC releases, there will still be 8.

Ahh!!!!!!! This is so infuriating

[Tommaso]

l. Plus, there are the 2 mediocre BFIs.

I assume you mean the two Artifical Eye releases, "Musashino" and "Oharu"? I know that some people here will disagree, but I think they are not as bad as one sometimes reads. Sure, not as good as the new MoC releases in clarity, sharpness and relative lack of damage, but I was presently surprised when I finally got around to see them some weeks ago. I've seen far worse prints of Japanese films of that vintage. Their greatest shortcoming is the absence of any extras, but the same will happen with an Eclipse release of these films. Also, you shouldn't miss out on the MoC's for the same reason; these films need contextualization, and the MoC booklets are a great treat for this.

So, personally I'd say, get the eight MoC's plus the two AE's, and cross your fingers that an Eclipse Mizoguchi set will be concerned with the films from the 40s that are already out in France and which I'm dying to see...

[Awesome Welles]

I'd have to agree with Tommaso, the AE Mizoguchi's are not terrible, I've certainly seen worse. Lady of Musashino is certainly serviceable and Lady of Oharu, is not brilliant, but at the price you could pick it up it'd be quite worth it. I would say pick up all eight MoC's and wait and see what Eclipse bring out, I wouldn't be surprised to see the two AEs on the Eclipse line plus some of the 1940s works. Genroku Chushingura for the main line? Then again they might surprise us all and focus on Mizo's 1930s output, that would be sublime!

[Via_Chicago]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the two AEs on the Eclipse line plus some of the 1940s works. Genroku Chushingura for the main line? Then again they might surprise us all and focus on Mizo's 1930s output, that would be sublime!

If Criterion released 47 Ronin, no matter what line it was on it would be the release of the year.