criterionforum.org

Cold Bishop wrote:It may also be the lack of radiation therapy.

I'm guessing that's it. It's what make the hair fall out anyway, right?

I am sure this has been mentioned, but the only misstep for me from the writing perspective is the use of Nazis. The show is basically about a good man with good intentions becoming a villain. OK, they have done a great job for the most part with Walt's descent. However, I hate that his final nemesis are Nazis. It's a distraction. The writers quite literally selected one of the most unlikable groups of people in recent human history forcing the viewer to have no choice but to root for Walt. And it isn't just that their Nazis, this is a group of people that shot a 9 year old boy and executed an innocent mother on her porch. I guess I could just not root for anyone, but I hope you see my point.

They're technically not nazis (or neos) if that helps. Also I'm rooting for Jesse and that's it. Walt really should kill himself.

I think aox made some great points however I think that this manipulation of audience feelings was probably intentional on Gilligan's part. About that scene where Todd murdered Andrea, was I the only person who thought they went back to kill Brock too? Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but I felt they left that ambiguous.

Huh? Don't they tell him in the car that there's still the kid, meaning don't try again or he bites it next

I know, I thought it was there's still the kid, go back and kill him too.

edit: because that seemed to be an order or reminder to Todd rather than a threat to Jesse

I read it like domino.

As for the big bads being Nazis, that point seems largely irrelevant. It would be one thing if a bunch of Nazis had just shown up out of the blue, acting all Nazi-like all of the time, and challenged Walt's empire just because. But these guys are inextricably linked to many recent plot developments. Todd joined the crew for reasons having nothing to do with being a Nazi and served a beneficial purpose for Walt. Then his family got involved, again to serve a beneficial purpose for Walt that had less to do with being Nazis and more to do with their ability to coordinate a hit across numerous prisons. What's key here is that these are dangerous people that Walt needed at one point, but that have now turned against him (in a completely organic way driven by their desire for self-preservation, and not just to provide the series with an obligatory final standoff).

The pseudo-Nazis are also a useful counterpoint to Gus. Walt thought that being a meth kingpin was going to be like being Gus -- a professional guy surrounded by professional guys making lots of money in a nice clean superlab. However, Walt ended up surrounded by a bunch of brutal thugs that wound up obliterating his life, killing his brother-in-law, torturing his surrogate son and breaking into his house to threaten his baby daughter. "Just because you killed Jesse James doesn't make you Jesse James." Yet another way that Walt's ambitions consume him, not least because he killed all the "professional guys."

Oh, and I also saw the mention of Brock being a threat to Jesse, not an order to Todd.

Well said by swo and rspaight. It also echoes what Andre was saying a few pages back. I'd only add that for me the Nazis represent a truly chaotic force. Because aside from Todd, and unlike nearly every other previous antagonist on the show, none of them seem to value anything or have anything in particular to lose. They have no business empire, loved ones or dreams of a better life to threaten. They're nihilistic/anarchic opportunists who'd just as soon die today in a firefight as abscond and live to see ripe old age with their share of the barrels of money.

warren oates wrote:They're nihilistic/anarchic opportunists who'd just as soon die today in a firefight as abscond and live to see ripe old age with their share of the barrels of money.

I think this is an overly dramatic, simplistic portrayal of them as Jack wanted to get out and enjoy their riches but only chose to carry on out of love for Todd (and his pursuit of Lydia). 'Excepting Todd' kind of cuts off your whole argument at it's knees.

There's a difference between Jack not seeing the need to work anymore and carefully guarding his windfall freedom with any kind of serious planning or a sincere desire to break out of the ruthless criminal milleu that represents the only life he really knows. His deferral to Todd strikes me as nothing more than a "ah, let the kid have his fun for a few more weeks" beat than anything else. After all, Jesse can always be killed later. And he and Todd do all the cooking anyway. What's it to Jack? Still, it doesn't show he cares much one way or the other. Or has any kind of longterm plans or deep commitment to his men or his family. It's not that he wouldn't hypothetically avenge Todd (he almost impulsively shot Jesse for ratting him out on tape). It's just that the threat of killing him wouldn't make his uncle Jack think twice about altering his course of action. There's no chaining Jack up with a picture of Todd.

The white supremacists are a contrast to the other enemies Walt has had (Gus, Mike, Hank) insofar as there doesn't seem to be a lot of redeeming quality about them, nor any real depth of feeling- they're much closer to the cartoon character Tuco seemed at first to be (and even he wound up having some depth via his family connections.) It feels a bit unsatisfying, as though the show is setting us up to be totally unconflicted when Walt goes on a roaring rampage of revenge against them.

Then again, the show has a history of setting something like that up specifically to undermine it, so I think the gauging real nature of these guys is going to have to wait for another week. And in any case, Walt's ultimately to blame, here- he opened Pandora's Box when he organized the prison hit. Otherwise, they would never have gotten involved.

matrixschmatrix wrote:there doesn't seem to be a lot of redeeming quality about them

Todd is always very polite.

matrixschmatrix wrote:Walt goes on a roaring rampage of revenge against them.

His rampage of revenge, if indeed it comes to be, won't be because of Jack & his crew. That impulse has passed. They may end up being the targets of the rampage but they aren't the cause. His pride and need for recognition & acknowledgement of his "accomplishments" will be. He'll justify the rampage by saying it was payback for killing Hank and taking the money, but it isn't the motivating force behind it.

swo17 wrote:

matrixschmatrix wrote:there doesn't seem to be a lot of redeeming quality about them

Todd is always very polite.

Todd is Walt's third "son".

Todd and Jesse are "step-brothers".

Ultimately, this makes Walt and Jack "hermanos".

Something to think about.

If hell is a barrel of cash and nothing else to do but watch DVDs all day, I really need to start running over more children with my car...

But 8 miles from the nearest town with no car, internet or phone in the middle of what looks like a bitter-cold winter? It's too bad they didn't have an entire episode about what he did to pass the time. Even someone 52 had television and radio to get lost in growing up.

flyonthewall2983 wrote:But 8 miles from the nearest town with no car, internet or phone in the middle of what looks like a bitter-cold winter? It's too bad they didn't have an entire episode about what he did to pass the time. Even someone 52 had television and radio to get lost in growing up.

With a runner to bring in any DVD on your wishlist, a car and the internet are unnecessary.

Eventually Walt got Stockholm Syndrome and grew to love Mr. Margorium's Wonder Emporium. He watched the first DVD enough times to wear it out. Thank God there was an extra copy.

And then Dustin Hoffman shoots him in the back of the head outside a pub as tear of love stream down Walt's face?

Well, I feel dumb. I was spinning out all sorts of far-fetched and elegant meanings for the title of this week's episode, when it finally dawned on me that "Felina" is an anagram for "Finale." Carry on.

I don't know, maybe Walt's long-lost sister Felina Fuchsia will appear to offer him an in into the club ecstasy scene.

Their ability to stay tight-lipped and give AMC as little as possible to promote the next episodes has been great. I just like that we got nothing for the finale. Keeps everyone on edge.