criterionforum.org

On EDISON. There's Coney Island at Night, and there's also a piece documenting German tourists doing the town with long extended sections in Luna P and Coney in general. There's more footage in there but these two jump to mind.

If you're a Coney Island lover theres The Little Fugitive, of course... getting a new hd release w docu, in 08.

Thanks for that - I'll check out the Edison. Obviously the documentary I saw was sourced from more than one archive and included quite a lot of Weegee's stuff (Has his movie stuff ever been released??) but the thing that stuck in my mind, as I mentioned on the other thread, were these extraordinary white knuckle rides that make Baghdad look like brownie camp. That and footage of the fire itself.

Has anyone used the Kino On Demand feature yet?

Tribe

Since I have a bit of time on my hands, I decided to add an extra (english) subtitle track to my my Absolut Medien Earth disk. There are around 120 intertitles that I lifted from the rather poor Kino edition. Now halfway through, I'm rather puzzled by Kino's translation:

Vassil, ich glaub, du bist
nicht ganz richtig im Kopf...

is translated

But, Basil, maybe you're forgetting...
what's his name...

and

Du meinst also, ich bin dumm?

becomes

So you think I'm a dope?

Is it just me, or is Kino's translation a bit dopey itself?

Would anybody be able to comment on the overall quality of Kino's African cinema DVDs? Particularly Gumba, Yeelen, and Touki Bouki?

feckless boy wrote:Since I have a bit of time on my hands, I decided to add an extra (english) subtitle track to my my Absolut Medien Earth disk. There are around 120 intertitles that I lifted from the rather poor Kino edition. Now halfway through, I'm rather puzzled by Kino's translation:

Vassil, ich glaub, du bist
nicht ganz richtig im Kopf...

is translated

But, Basil, maybe you're forgetting...
what's his name...

and

Du meinst also, ich bin dumm?

becomes

So you think I'm a dope?

Is it just me, or is Kino's translation a bit dopey itself?

Isn't the Kino translated directly from the Russian, not German?

Isn't the Kino translated directly from the Russian, not German?

I think they both are (Kino and Absolut Medien). Sorry for not making my self more clear: I don't speak or read Russian and since my German is pretty bad I wanted to add Kino's English translation to the disk with the better image.

And when I'm comparing the two translations I find the English stylistically haphazard: "how ye be" is mixed with "rich farmers and the dopes".

feckless boy wrote:

Isn't the Kino translated directly from the Russian, not German?

I think they both are (Kino and Absolut Medien). Sorry for not making my self more clear: I don't speak or read Russian and since my German is pretty bad I wanted to add Kino's English translation to the disk with the better image.

And when I'm comparing the two translations I find the English stylistically haphazard: "how ye be" is mixed with "rich farmers and the dopes".

The reason why there are stylistic oddities in the Kino English subtitles is because the translator, Stephen Hill, was trying to convey the unusual written style of the original Russian title cards.

First, the Russian text uses a great deal of Ukrainian touches in the vocabulary. Though Ukrainian is a different language, it's broadly intelligible to Russian speakers. It sounds like "country" language to many Russians, and it's not uncommon for them to make fun of it. ("Ukraina" means literally, "borderland.") Dovzhenko is embracing these language differences as a banner of a unique Ukrainian identity.

Also, many of the characters are illiterate peasants, and the title cards portray that through their humorous use (and misuse) of vocabulary and grammar. I don't agree with every individual point in the translation, but Stephen Hill had a good reason for making it sound the way it does. BTW: he's a noted Slavic professor at Indiana University.

jsteffe, thank you for your thorough answer.

feckless boy wrote:

Isn't the Kino translated directly from the Russian, not German?

I think they both are (Kino and Absolut Medien). Sorry for not making my self more clear: I don't speak or read Russian and since my German is pretty bad I wanted to add Kino's English translation to the disk with the better image.

And when I'm comparing the two translations I find the English stylistically haphazard: "how ye be" is mixed with "rich farmers and the dopes".

.. and I'm still not clear why you're presenting it this way:

(German Text as if it were the source text) vs (Hill's translations from the Russian.)

I think what you're trying to get at is that you're comparing the differences of the two subs as End Results With No Knowledge of the Source... but without any understanding of the original text it's impossible to say.

What I can say as a big fan of Dovzenko's silents is: the dude was a huge fan of the bizarre, and the nonsequitor, and the ambiguous. Huge chunks of explanitory verbiage are scooped out of his dialog whereby repeated viewings can be necc just to understand what is going on. He took a lot of heat when this material was released because very few people had any idea what was even going on in the narrative, causing Stalin & co to denounce Earth as hibrow nonsense. Same with Arsenal and Zevnigora. And his dialog is filled with colloquialisms, all kinds of folk and mythological innuendo, plus run-ons, fragments and just flat out strangeness-- this with the already supersonic ambiguity.

Of course it's impossible not to notice the strangeness of the subs-- I noted it too. But I got similar senses from the recent resto of Zvenigora (as well as Arsenal). Dovzhenko was a glorious disciple of the utterly bizarre, god bless him.

Of course it's impossible not to notice the strangeness of the subs

Well, since the German translation isn't so strange, I wanted to know what was going on in the Kino version.

Dovzhenko was a glorious disciple of the utterly bizarre, god bless him.

AMEN!

i can say that from my recollection Touki Bouki is very acceptable. i don't remember having any serious problems with it, but its not outstanding by any measures. and i'm talking about the print too, the film is quite enjoyable.

jsteffe wrote:The reason why there are stylistic oddities in the Kino English subtitles is because the translator, Stephen Hill, was trying to convey the unusual written style of the original Russian title cards.

First, the Russian text uses a great deal of Ukrainian touches in the vocabulary. Though Ukrainian is a different language, it's broadly intelligible to Russian speakers. It sounds like "country" language to many Russians, and it's not uncommon for them to make fun of it. ("Ukraina" means literally, "borderland.") Dovzhenko is embracing these language differences as a banner of a unique Ukrainian identity.

Also, many of the characters are illiterate peasants, and the title cards portray that through their humorous use (and misuse) of vocabulary and grammar. I don't agree with every individual point in the translation, but Stephen Hill had a good reason for making it sound the way it does. BTW: he's a noted Slavic professor at Indiana University.

That's interesting, and it does help to explain some of the odd translations that pop up under the Kino title cards.



So this is not Stephen Hill failing to find an authentic-sounding voice for the Ukrainian peasants. This is Hill authentically capturing the peasants' "humorous use (and misuse) of vocabulary and grammar". By the way, are there any Russophones here who could give a literal translation of that card?

Kinsayder wrote:

jsteffe wrote:The reason why there are stylistic oddities in the Kino English subtitles is because the translator, Stephen Hill, was trying to convey the unusual written style of the original Russian title cards.

First, the Russian text uses a great deal of Ukrainian touches in the vocabulary. Though Ukrainian is a different language, it's broadly intelligible to Russian speakers. It sounds like "country" language to many Russians, and it's not uncommon for them to make fun of it. ("Ukraina" means literally, "borderland.") Dovzhenko is embracing these language differences as a banner of a unique Ukrainian identity.

Also, many of the characters are illiterate peasants, and the title cards portray that through their humorous use (and misuse) of vocabulary and grammar. I don't agree with every individual point in the translation, but Stephen Hill had a good reason for making it sound the way it does. BTW: he's a noted Slavic professor at Indiana University.

That's interesting, and it does help to explain some of the odd translations that pop up under the Kino title cards.



So this is not Stephen Hill failing to find an authentic-sounding voice for the Ukrainian peasants. This is Hill authentically capturing the peasants' "humorous use (and misuse) of vocabulary and grammar". By the way, are there any Russophones here who could give a literal translation of that card?

It reads (in Latin character's) "Nu, i khloptsy, sukogo syna, krasota!!" Taking this apart literally: "Well, fellows/lads, son of a bitch, beauty!" The "i" usually means "and," but here it's an intensifier. "Krasota/beauty" here is slang for "splendid!" or "a beaut!" The reason why Hill plays up the "hick" aspect of his translation is because he's not just translating it literally, but trying to convey the tone suggested by the overall language. I think maybe he pushes it too far, but to use plain language wouldn't represent what's really going on, either.

I love that on this forum, there's a specialist for anything! "Can anyone read Cyrillic characters?" is answered within hours. =D>

Beaver announces Kino will release four Alain Resnais titles on DVD in March 2008:

Melo (one of my 3 or 4 favorite Resnais films)
Life is a Bed of Roses
Love Unto Death
I Want to go Home

They are being presented under the Kimstim Collection banner, and are more than likely a direct port of the R2 Mk2 French releases from a few years back. A couple of the titles were already subtitled in English for those Mk2 releases, but not all of them.

This is great news, though I'm really waiting for Providence!

In case you can't wait ...

The MK2 discs, which I have here, of Melo, La vie est un roman, and L'amour a mort are all subbed. The last, I Want to Go Home, which I don't own, is, I believe, in English.

Wittsdream wrote:Beaver announces Kino will release four Alain Resnais titles on DVD in March 2008:

Melo (one of my 3 or 4 favorite Resnais films)
Life is a Bed of Roses
Love Unto Death
I Want to go Home

They are being presented under the Kimstim Collection banner, and are more than likely a direct port of the R2 Mk2 French releases from a few years back. A couple of the titles were already subtitled in English for those Mk2 releases, but not all of them.

This is great news, though I'm really waiting for Providence!

Tremendous news. I've been wanting to say that Kino is putting out better material than CC recently. Now if they could just get the rights to Je'Taime Je'Taime I'll come out and say it officially!

There's an incredibly shortage of Resnais' work available with English subs, this is a tremendous step forward, even if it is coming from Kino.

The MK2 set included Mon Oncle d'Amerique, Life Is a Bed of Roses, Love Unto Death, Melo and I Want to Go Home.

The first four had English subs, and Home was in English, but there's a fair amount of French dialogue that wasn't subbed.

There were lots of extras, although not subtitled, which is a real missed opportunity for KimStim to not port all of them over.

jsteffe wrote:It reads (in Latin character's) "Nu, i khloptsy, sukogo syna, krasota!!"

The fourth word transliterates into "sukinogo", rather.

tavernier wrote:There were lots of extras, although not subtitled, which is a real missed opportunity for KimStim to not port all of them over.

Going from their Å vankmajer DVDs, I think it's safe to say that KimStim operates on a shoestring - so licensing and subtitling "lots of extras" may well be beyond them.

Bingo. Kind of sad, but if you can imagine this-- KimStim are The Cheaper End of the Kino Line (cough). If that can be imagined. A sub label distributed by the label. Any supplements are going to hafta pre-exist.

Ledos wrote:

jsteffe wrote:It reads (in Latin character's) "Nu, i khloptsy, sukogo syna, krasota!!"

The fourth word transliterates into "sukinogo", rather.

That is what is known as hasty typing. Thanks for catching it and correcting it for everyone else!

I got a cigar box for Xmas. ;~}

MEK