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What A Disgrace wrote:Michael, it must be annoying for so many people to see you as the BFI go-to guy, but I have to inquire if you know anything about the upcoming Borzage volumes.

I don't, but one of the BFI DVD producers does, so...

Why was Lilion included in the set instead of, say, Lazybones or The River's reconstruction?

The BFI doesn't have the rights to Lazybones, and the reconstruction of The River will be on volume 2 as an extra.

Are there any plans for a 3rd volume; preferably with these two films?

No, because the two announced volumes contain everything that the BFI currently has the rights to. There are no plans to pursue any others at present.

Didn't know where to post this but UK users may find it helpful:

BFI on twitter wrote:LFF | And lo! an online retrospective of the Festival is launched @theauteurs. First-free-film code: 53rdLFF09 http://bit.ly/2UWeXz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

London Film Festival thread here.

Heads up - MovieMail's Instant Blu-Ray Collection offer expires at midnight on Saturday 18th. UK time, obviously.

MichaelB wrote:Heads up - MovieMail's Instant Blu-Ray Collection offer expires at midnight on Saturday 18th. UK time, obviously.

How soon will it be done again?

perkizitore wrote:How soon will it be done again?

Even if I knew, just how likely do you think it is that I'd reveal future marketing plans before the end of a current promotion?

I'll give you a clue: the answer's somewhere between "wildly unlikely" and "you're 'avin' a laugh, mate".

MichaelB wrote:

perkizitore wrote:How soon will it be done again?

Even if I knew, just how likely do you think it is that I'd reveal future marketing plans before the end of a current promotion?

I'll give you a clue: the answer's somewhere between "wildly unlikely" and "you're 'avin' a laugh, mate".

I didn't require an immediate reply . But, when BFI can sell their blu-ray titles only 11 pounds on Amazon a few months after they are released, i expect you to treat our purchasing capabilities with more respect.

perkizitore wrote:

MichaelB wrote:

perkizitore wrote:How soon will it be done again?

Even if I knew, just how likely do you think it is that I'd reveal future marketing plans before the end of a current promotion?

I'll give you a clue: the answer's somewhere between "wildly unlikely" and "you're 'avin' a laugh, mate".

I didn't require an immediate reply . But, when BFI can sell their blu-ray titles only 11 pounds on Amazon a few months after they are released, i expect you to treat our purchasing capabilities with more respect.

I second that and when I heard about that discount promotion, I shook my head in disbelief. As I do understand, that most of the BFI line up is niche product and sells in pretty limited numbers, and the BFI also is a company that has to earn money and maybe won't get excessive UK governmental sponsoring all the time, dumping the entire product line like some 3rd class C-movie product won't have my approval.

I bought each and every Blu-ray the BFI released through Amazon.co.uk, but cancelled all pre-orders now (Institute Benjamenta, The Innocents, The Leopard), because as I don't have to mourn over money, I also find that a that huge discount so early is a slap in the face to us early birds and supporters of the BFI Blu-ray line. Such huge discounts have, in my knowledge, never been offered for releases by Criterion and other quality lines.

What will I learn from that case? Strictly no new purchases through regular channels - just waiting for a "wildly unlikely" discount and if it needs to wait till the end of 2010.

perkizitore wrote:I expect you to treat our purchasing capabilities with more respect.

Well, your "purchasing capabilities" are apparently nonexistent, or at least that's what you told me when you sent me a sob story about how you're a poor student (with a Blu-ray player?) and couldn't afford to pay the £150 minimum. And if you remember the context of that particular conversation, you'll understand why I'm not especially inclined to treat you with any respect - at least not until you've earned it back.

Lazertron wrote:I second that and when I heard about that discount promotion, I shook my head in disbelief. As I do understand, that most of the BFI line up is niche product and sells in pretty limited numbers, and the BFI also is a company that has to earn money and maybe won't get excessive UK governmental sponsoring all the time, dumping the entire product line like some 3rd class C-movie product won't have my approval.

There's no question of "dumping the entire product line". It's a strictly time-limited promotion requiring a minimum outlay of £150.

It's also entirely characteristic of the BFI's current Blu-ray strategy, which I trust you'll agree is certainly the most adventurous of any UK distributor, and possibly the most adventurous of anyone worldwide. But, as you say, this is a niche market with a vengeance - which means that aggressive promotional strategies are occasionally deemed necessary.

Presumably the thinking is that this might encourage waverers to take the plunge and become Blu-ray compatible - which will in turn increase the size of the user base and therefore make it more likely that the BFI will continue to take similar risks. Which as an early supporter I trust you'll agree is something to be encouraged?

I bought each and every Blu-ray the BFI released through Amazon.co.uk, but cancelled all pre-orders now (Institute Benjamenta, The Innocents, The Leopard), because as I don't have to mourn over money, I also find that a that huge discount so early is a slap in the face to us early birds and supporters of the BFI Blu-ray line. Such huge discounts have, in my knowledge, never been offered for releases by Criterion and other quality lines.

Actually, Moviemail frequently offers similar discounts - you can get some real bargains if you visit the site regularly (I've picked up loads of Artificial Eye, MoC and Studio Ghibli titles at a knock-down price over the last few months), and I can't recall any other deal requiring a minimum three-figure outlay.

Factual quibbling aside, I obviously can see where you're coming from - but if you apply that kind of thinking across the board, you'll never buy anything early, because in 99% of cases it'll always be available cheaper at a later date (most exceptions being stuff that goes OOP very quickly). I cynically decided not to buy Heimat at full RRP, waiting for the price to drop by 50% - it eventually did. Similarly, I haven't yet bought the Beckett On Film box set, as I'm waiting for a similar discount. On the other hand, there are other titles that I'll buy on the day of release, because my keenness to see them as soon as possible outweighs my instinctive stinginess.

What will I learn from that case? Strictly no new purchases through regular channels - just waiting for a "wildly unlikely" discount and if it needs to wait till the end of 2010.

Just to clarify, the phrase "wildly unlikely" referred to the chances of anyone revealing future marketing plans before a current promotion had expired, not to the likelihood of future discounts. Obviously there will be other discounts at some point, but that's true of any company that has to keep an eye on the way the market's going in order to stay in business. Especially if it specialises in niche product.

MichaelB wrote:

perkizitore wrote:I expect you to treat our purchasing capabilities with more respect.

Well, your "purchasing capabilities" are apparently nonexistent, or at least that's what you told me when you sent me a sob story about how you're a poor student (with a Blu-ray player?) and couldn't afford to pay the £150 minimum. And if you remember the context of that particular conversation, you'll understand why I'm not especially inclined to treat you with any respect - at least not until you've earned it back.

I said at the time of the offer i was penniless, but i have to assure you that i can afford buying blu-rays. Maybe you thought 'exploiting' the 'bug' of an electronic system isn't covered by your 'high moral' standards, but that was simply an opportunity to buy the products for a logical price, NOT free. That can be proved not only by the recent Amazon discount, but by the marketing practices that other companies exercise, like MoC (you can buy directly some titles from them cheaper than anywhere else). You do that also, but your online shop is 50% more expensive than the usual retailers.

perkizitore wrote:I said at the time of the offer i was penniless, but i have to assure you that i can afford buying blu-rays.

In which case you're clearly not penniless, are you?

Maybe you thought 'exploiting' the 'bug' of an electronic system isn't covered by your 'high moral' standards

That's because because my moral standards don't stretch to condoning fraud. And deliberate fraud at that, since you posted instructions to others as to how to fiddle the electronic ordering system to get around the £150 minimum investment requirement, so there's no doubt that you knew what you were doing. (Just in case anyone else is tempted, that particular bug was squished within hours of me bringing it to MovieMail's attention).

but that was simply an opportunity to buy the products for a logical price, NOT free.

It was an "opportunity" in the same sense that a careless shopkeeper taking a lunch break and leaving the door unlocked and the till open is an opportunity. The price you pay is what the retailer sets, not an arbitrary figure of your choosing - if you want to haggle, there's always eBay.

That can be proved not only by the recent Amazon discount, but by the marketing practices that other companies exercise, like MoC (you can buy directly some titles from them cheaper than anywhere else). You do that also, but your online shop is 50% more expensive than the usual retailers.

In which case you are more than entitled to shop around. But you are not entitled to game the system to wangle yourself a discount to which you are not entitled - and no amount of bluster and obfuscation is going to change that.

Incidentally, I'm genuinely gobsmacked that you've chosen to rerun this argument in a public forum. So much for my tact in taking it to PM when you were first caught!

perkizitore wrote:Maybe you thought 'exploiting' the 'bug' of an electronic system isn't covered by your 'high moral' standards, but that was simply an opportunity to buy the products for a logical price, NOT free.

Problem also with your logic is that you're not 'exploiting the bug' in some anonymous corporate entity but a small operation run by a small team of enthusiastic and highly helpful people (Moviemail) who reward long term customer loyalty with additional discounts and points system. You want to rip off someone try Tesco's.

MichaelB wrote:

perkizitore wrote: In which case you are more than entitled to shop around. But you are not entitled to game the system to wangle yourself a discount to which you are not entitled - and no amount of bluster and obfuscation is going to change that.

Incidentally, I'm genuinely gobsmacked that you've chosen to rerun this argument in a public forum. So much for my tact in taking it to PM when you were first caught!

I generally agree with what you say, but you have to remember that neither i ordered anything from Moviemail exploiting the bug, nor it was i that first posted the 'technique'. But BFI cannot declare morality: Being more expensive than MoC for example, having massive discounts shortly after a title is released and the most expensive online shop ever, certainly it's not very helpful to the loyal customers.

Who cares who has the right to hand down moral advice, the fact of the matter is you passed on, and perhaps would have acted on judging by your responses, a way to cheat a company, and as Zazou says, a small company with good prices and customer service. Just because you don't agree with BFI prices, i'm sorry but take that up with the BFI, don't take it out on somebody else. Really, really terrible logic.

Oh question for Michael:

A few years ago (maybe 3 or 4?) the BFI catalogue mentioned Angelopoulos' The Travelling Players as Coming Soon. It has never been mentioned since, is this still in the pipeline or was there some rights issue?

Peacock wrote:Oh question for Michael:

A few years ago (maybe 3 or 4?) the BFI catalogue mentioned Angelopoulos' The Travelling Players as Coming Soon. It has never been mentioned since, is this still in the pipeline or was there some rights issue?

I don't think I've seen it on any lists, I'm afraid.

MichaelB wrote:

Peacock wrote:Oh question for Michael:

A few years ago (maybe 3 or 4?) the BFI catalogue mentioned Angelopoulos' The Travelling Players as Coming Soon. It has never been mentioned since, is this still in the pipeline or was there some rights issue?

I don't think I've seen it on any lists, I'm afraid.

There was a cinema reissue about 3-4 years ago - would that what the catalogue was referring to?

Hmm maybe I guess, it was in one of the dvd booklets though, oh well perhaps someday

Peacock wrote:Oh question for Michael:

A few years ago (maybe 3 or 4?) the BFI catalogue mentioned Angelopoulos' The Travelling Players as Coming Soon. It has never been mentioned since, is this still in the pipeline or was there some rights issue?

I suppose its only fitting its taken so long given the typically funereal pace of Angelopoulos' films!
boom Boom!

@MichaelB
As we don't share the same point of view about the recent BFI/Moviemail deal, I would nonetheless like to thank you for explaining BFI's reasons and your insightful statements.

I've just seen the Kurosawa Collection listed on the HMV website, as an upcoming BFI pre-order. I haven't seen it listed anywhere else, but in light of the Criterion AK boxset announcement, could this be a similar package (with the same new additions to the collection)?

I'm not quite sure how this would work, what with Kurosawa being fairly spread out on DVD in the UK (BFI [holding the majority], MOC, Artificial Eye, Yume, Optimum, Fox), though Spirit Entertainment did release two volumes of Ken Loach with films held by multiple companies.

HMV give me such a headache. They're far too vague and i'm not very smart.

EDIT: I've just seen that the BFI are boxing up a number of works (Jacques Tati, Terence Davies, The Film Noir Collection) which i assume will be in line for the Christmas orders, so I guess the Kurosawa Collection will be just a collection of the films BFI hold rights to already, boxed up for Christmas.

bigP wrote:I've just seen the Kurosawa Collection listed on the HMV website, as an upcoming BFI pre-order. I haven't seen it listed anywhere else, but in light of the Criterion AK boxset announcement, could this be a similar package (with the same new additions to the collection)?

It could be this: Kurosawa Collection

[quote="bigP"]EDIT: I've just seen that the BFI are boxing up a number of works (Jacques Tati, Terence Davies, The Film Noir Collection)[quote]

MichaelB, can you confirm yet if the Tati set will include reissues of Holiday, Oncle and Playtime or new transfers? And if someone has a link to a review and screenshots of the earlier BFI discs, I'd be grateful. I've been somewhat disappointed with CC's disc of Mon Oncle and would definitely buy another version with improved video from whoever releases their disc first (since I could see CC reissuing their older Tati titles as well).

I've been on the fence with Mon Oncle for a while. This isn't the best place to ask this but which is better out of the Crit and BFI disk transfer-wise? It would be nice if it got rereleased but who knows how long till that happens

Peacock wrote:I've been on the fence with Mon Oncle for a while. This isn't the best place to ask this but which is better out of the Crit and BFI disk transfer-wise? It would be nice if it got rereleased but who knows how long till that happens

I was astonished that no one seems to have reviewed the BFI discs when they came out (apart from Playtime) because I'd have liked to see a comparison between the BFI and CC Mon Oncle (as well as M Hulot's Holiday). I caved in and got the Criterion. Maybe Beaver will at least review the new boxset.

PS.: Peacock, I've sent you a PM.