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Why bother watching movies if you disbelieve in the human capacity for empathy vis a vis events-beyond-the-horizon?

And who here doesn't believe in that?

So a man walked in all soaking wet, his hair in right angles from electric stormy air, asked "Anyone know the forecast?"

Calling BBM a gay film is like calling The Age of Innocence a heterosexual film. Both films are much more than that.

Oh please. ALL films are heterosexual films, unless they go on "Oprah" and admit to being gay.

In this culture there is othing "more" than heterosexuality. it is the absolute. It is the ultimate. It is the law. And as a gay man who's turning 59 next month I know that simple fact far better than you do.

David Ehrenstein wrote:

Calling BBM a gay film is like calling The Age of Innocence a heterosexual film. Both films are much more than that.

Oh please. ALL films are heterosexual films, unless they go on "Oprah" and admit to being gay.

In this culture there is othing "more" than heterosexuality. it is the absolute. It is the ultimate. It is the law. And as a gay man who's turning 59 next month I know that simple fact far better than you do.

(Sound effect of a 155mm HE howitzer thundering out... one dry lentil. *>Thipp<*..)

David Ehrenstein wrote: Oh please. ALL films are heterosexual films, unless they go on "Oprah" and admit to being gay.

Thats BS and you know it. There are a great deal of films that have no sexual element to them at all. There have also been films with fairly overt homosexual tones that havent gone parading around about it. This black and white focus on gay vs hetero, and that something has to be one or the other, with no middle ground is really offputting to the average person.

smw356 wrote:...the average person.

Uh-oh, you've set yourself up for David E's favorite shot.

Such an easy shot I'm not even going to take it.

As for Herr Schreck -- here, have some lentil soup:

http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookr ... bookreview

Speaking of easy:

http://www.youtube.com/w/Brokeback-Topg ... 0top%20gun

It's just a shame he can't spell "secrets."

David Ehrenstein wrote:

Calling BBM a gay film is like calling The Age of Innocence a heterosexual film. Both films are much more than that.

Oh please. ALL films are heterosexual films, unless they go on "Oprah" and admit to being gay.

In this culture there is othing "more" than heterosexuality. it is the absolute. It is the ultimate. It is the law. And as a gay man who's turning 59 next month I know that simple fact far better than you do.

marty wrote:I loved Michelle Williams in the film. I just wished she was in more scenes. The scene in the kitchen when she finally explodes and reveals to Ennis that she has known about his "fishing trips" with Jack where they caught no fish is, for me, the best scene in the film. She deserves an Oscar and I think she will get it just for this scene alone.

This scene in particular bothered me... Williams (and it's not entirely her fault, I realize) seems to take to the fact that there's another MAN involved quite easily. Chellie's got the "he's cheating" reaction down pat. "He's cheating with another man"? Sorry, but in the desolate west in the 60's, I find it quite hard to believe that they're one in the same. Purposeful or not, this was a scene where it seemed to me that "universal love story" rules didn't really seem to apply, but they were slathered on anyway.

-Toilet Dcuk

It didn't strike me that waya tall. In the now-famous scene where she catches them kissing her reaction is 'Gobsmacked." This has come to her compeltely out of left field and she has no idea of what to do about it. In the scenes that follow when she brings it up to him he shuts her down immediately -- the way men always shut their wives down. It takes awhile but she eventually revolts and divorces him. In many ways it follows a pattern that women of her class would take on the discovery of heterosexually cheating spouses. But the correspondent being another man throws her for a loop.

I agree about the 'gobsmacked' scene... I'm referring to the scene where she finally up and confronts him, the "Jack Nasty" scene, if you will. Years have passed and gobsmacked no longer applies, but (and maybe it's me) I'm having troubles believing that Ms. Del Mar would have internalized this demon the same way as if she had caught Ennis cheating with a woman.

I guess a large portion of the problem is also that Williams' character never really gets fleshed out. We know so very little about her and her past that I'm more drawing on the attitude of the time and place rather than her specifically.

As a counterpoint, I think Ledger and Hathaway's phone conversation was beautifully handled, if it helps give an idea of what I was or wasn't expecting.

-Toilet Dcuk

I'm having troubles believing that Ms. Del Mar would have internalized this demon the same way as if she had caught Ennis cheating with a woman.

Well she doesn't, really. had he been having an affair with a woman she would have had access to "wronged wife" context quite familiar to her.
The party of the second part might well have been a woman of her acquaintance. Jack is Out of Left Field from first to last. Moreover she's not wealthy and capable of taking off at a moment's notice once things get ugly. Eventually she does and, as you will note, she makes a much more successful second marriage to aman who's not only straight but financially far better fixed than Ennis ever was.

Sorry, I still fail to see the difference. The acquaintance issue is neither her nor there, it could have been a man of her acquaintance as well. Or a Jacqueline Twist, which, from where I'm sitting, would have resulted in the exact same reaction on Michelle's part. Williams has the most direct knowledge of Ennis and Jack's relationship, yet she seems to be the only one that doesn't have a reaction to the fact that it's guy on guy. It just seems a little forward-thinking for a country wife.

I realize it's rather minor; I'm not expecting a change in the story (i.e. an earlier divorce or a different timeline at all, really). But in a film in which the acting was one of the strongest assets, I don't find Michelle up to snuff. It's not that her performance is bad, I just think it's in the wrong story...

-Toilet Dcuk

Well i disagree. (Weird to be defending the film on this point, but there it is.) She doens't know how to react on dicovering her cowboy rides side-saddle. To me that's perfectly understandable.

How do YOU think she should have reacted?

What do you think of Julianne Moore's acting in Far From Heaven? Especially when she catches her husband screwing a guy in his office.

That was quite teriffic. More telling than Moore's mad dash out of the office was the fact that she tosses the police report away after picking Quaid up at the station after a vice arrest early on in the action. She simply doesn't want to know. And this is very typical of huge numbers of straights when confronted with the reality of gayness: "I'll ignore it and pretend it's not there and maybe it will go away."

David Ehrenstein wrote:And this is very typical of huge numbers of straights when confronted with the reality of gayness: "I'll ignore it and pretend it's not there and maybe it will go away."

Good point, but I would substitute "maybe" with "hopefully." Also, it's telling that I cannot recollect seeing the noun "straight" in the plural sense on print before, whereas "gays" or "faggots" are commonplace.

David,

I follow her not knowing how to react on the discovery. It's the years of living with the knowledge and still not reacting that I would have liked to see done differently. It seemed to me that Williams didn't care that Ennis was gay, only that he was cheating on her. Yes, the infidelity is the greater issue in her mind, and yes, the script is as much at fault for giving her little time to develop a character and even less depth to begin with, but still, that's a situation with a lot of levels and I really only saw one.

There you go, I guess that's how I think she should have reacted. Like I said, it's minor, but with marty claiming that that scene alone was Oscar-worthy, I had to balk.

Michael, I haven't seen Far From Heaven since it came out, and details are a bit hazy, but I love Julianne, so I'm gonna go on default and layer on the praise.

It's the years of living with the knowledge and still not reacting that I would have liked to see done differently. It seemed to me that Williams didn't care that Ennis was gay, only that he was cheating on her.

Hmmm that's an intertesting take. To me her reaction was inextricably intertwined with her lack of options. She's a poor women with two kids to raise. Where does dumping him get her at that point? Moreover I don't think she can "get" gay. She's been raised to believe that, being a woman, she has what ALL men want. Therefore his betrayal is "irrational."

David Ehrenstein wrote:Moreover I don't think she can "get" gay. She's been raised to believe that, being a woman, she has what ALL men want. Therefore his betrayal is "irrational."

Also an interesting take. Still can't say I particularly agree, but I'm following your (and Michelle's?) logic, at least.

-Toilet Dcuk

There's an interesting interview here with James Schamus:

http://towleroad.typepad.com/towleroad/ ... with_.html

8 Oscar Nominations:

Best Picture

Best Director

Best Adapted Screenplay

Best Actor

Best Supporting Actress

Best Bottom

Best Musical Score

Best Cinematography

http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertai ... boy26.html

<---Article from Chicago Sun-Times, few days back, about how BBM ain't the first rope-'em-cowboys movie.

And re: "Best Bottom" -- I laffed out loud.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertai ... boy26.html

<---Article from Chicago Sun-Times, few days back, about how BBM ain't the first rope-'em-cowboys movie.

Actually, I prefer the list below, as its a little more complete and more inclusive of an actual, living queer cinema. That, and the film's listed here are generally much better.

http://jclarkmedia.com/film/filmreviewb ... btwesterns

Unfortunately, both lists exclude Oldrich Lipský's Lemonade Joe, which I still find a camp riot.