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Amazon also issues blu-ray releases of their own distributed films and has been partnering with Criterion for modern releases in recent news. I would think the new working relationship with boutique labels- or at least Criterion- should be optimistic for acquiring films in this catalogue, rather than closing a door

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:Why is there the assumption that Amazon will close off its catalog? MGM is one of the most liberal with it’s licensing going from Criterion to Vinegar Syndrome to Kino. Considering just how many titles they currently have licensed off, I couldn’t see it ending.

Five years ago, I never thought that the Fox vaults would be slammed shut and hermetically sealed, and policies under previous management are meaningless. My instinct is to be pessimistic, but I hope I’m wrong.

I think there are different approaches to these things - but, in general, the approach of most buyouts isn't a total clearing out of everyone involved. In all likelihood, some of the people who currently do licensing and make these decisions at MGM (which will continue to exist as a studio producing movies, especially as this deal will not clear regulation until well into next year) will continue into the new version of the company. It's also not exactly a common thing for the approach to be "cancel all ongoing business" when these things happen - revenue streams, however small they may seem to deals of this magnitude, are something they will want to continue and not immediately stop. While it's possibly it's the nightmare situation and they just press the button and stop everything happening, I don't think five-alarm-fire is the right approach to this news (unless you're speaking of what will happen to MGM/UA's new theatrical releases starting next year once the deal actually gets going), especially as for the time being business will be continuing as usual (it wasn't until 2020 that boutique label releases from Fox had winnowed down to just Criterion, fully two years after the deal was first mooted) and Severin in fact just announced their first-ever MGM licensed title, Overboard, for August.

Amazon's interest in this catalog is to bulk up Prime Video. So I guess it is possible that they could be interested in continuing to license titles out, but I share Michael's pessimism and think the vault door is shut. Existing deals should be honored (although, look at what Disney did to Signal One, so maybe we shouldn't take this for granted), but one really should prioritize any MGM titles that they have any interest in owning.

The sale of MGM to Amazon may not be as bad as all that. The pre-1986 film library had already been sold off to WarnerMedia (now sold to Discovery, which raises its own concerns for the future), but the post-1986 library contains a few Criterion titles, and the pre-1986 UA and Orion.

Although its library is diminished, MGM still owns 4,000 older movies, including pre-1986 films that come from two MGM divisions, United Artists and Orion. Those movies include “Rocky,” “RoboCop,” “The Pink Panther,” “Silence of the Lambs” and the James Bond catalog. Other titles include “Legally Blonde,” “Moonstruck,” “Basic Instinct,” “The Thomas Crown Affair” and “Tomb Raider.”

DeprongMori wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:07 pm The sale of MGM to Amazon may not be as bad as all that. The pre-1986 film library had already been sold off to WarnerMedia (now sold to Discovery, which raises its own concerns for the future), but the post-1986 library contains a few Criterion titles, and the pre-1986 UA and Orion.

There may not be a lot of post-1986 titles in there, but Criterion's total of MGM-licensed releases to date comes out to 52, which isn't a small number and accounts for some of their more prominent titles. Then there's the numerous titles that have been licensed by other labels like Kino, Arrow, Olive, etc.

I'll add that the article is mistaken to imply that MGM only has "pre-1986" UA and Orion titles—they also own virtually everything UA has made since, given that MGM and UA were merged in 1980, and almost the entire Orion catalog outside of the 1980-82 releases distributed through Warner Bros. I'm also surprised to read that Basic Instinct is with MGM, since everything points to Canal being the owner and it's currently distributed in the U.S. by Lionsgate, which handles most of Canal's bigger titles. But it's mentioned in the press release announcing the deal, so if it is a mistake it's not just down to the NYT reporter.

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:21 pm

DeprongMori wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:07 pm The sale of MGM to Amazon may not be as bad as all that. The pre-1986 film library had already been sold off to WarnerMedia (now sold to Discovery, which raises its own concerns for the future), but the post-1986 library contains a few Criterion titles, and the pre-1986 UA and Orion.

There may not be a lot of post-1986 titles in there, but Criterion's total of MGM-licensed releases to date comes out to 52, which isn't a small number and accounts for some of their more prominent titles. Then there's the numerous titles that have been licensed by other labels like Kino, Arrow, Olive, etc.

I'll add that the article is mistaken to imply that MGM only has "pre-1986" UA and Orion titles—they also own virtually everything UA has made since, given that MGM and UA were merged in 1980, and almost the entire Orion catalog outside of the 1980-82 releases distributed through Warner Bros. I'm also surprised to read that Basic Instinct is with MGM, since everything points to Canal being the owner and it's currently distributed in the U.S. by Lionsgate, which handles most of Canal's bigger titles. But it's mentioned in the press release announcing the deal, so if it is a mistake it's not just down to the NYT reporter.

Basic Instinct may have something do with Carolco's bankrupcty, and it's still probably just North America

Get ready for another Pink Panther reboot, people! We're breaking out the MGM script-picking parrot

Basic Instinct is with Lionsgate, with Rialto handling theatrical. MGM did produce Basic Instinct 2. So they may have the remake and/or sequel rights.

dwk wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:19 pm Basic Instinct is with Lionsgate, with Rialto handling theatrical. MGM did produce Basic Instinct 2. So they may have the remake and/or sequel rights.

Ah. Rialto also handles theatrical for Verhoeven's Total Recall now

I do think Amazon will leave the Criterion deals in place and may expand it due to what seems like their good relationship. After all, Amazon sells physical media.Why would they cut it out of their bottom line. Maybe other boutiques could have more of a problem with Amazon.

One thing these deals are making obvious is physical media is still viable for collectors. How many streaming services will people be willing to sign up for to have access to all the studios?

therewillbeblus wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 2:23 pm Amazon also issues blu-ray releases of their own distributed films

They do? Do you have a list (no, I’m not being sarcastic)? At a glance, there’s virtually nothing released on disc where Amazon are the sole distributor, films or series, and likely won’t ever have a physical release.

It’s seems like it’s always taken another entity with an interest in people seeing their film available beyond Amazon Prime, to result in a home video release. Thankfully they’re not as advanced as Netflix in holding films & series hostage to their streaming service, but buying up rights to studio catalogues can’t actually be a good thing.

FrauBlucher wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 9:20 pm I do think Amazon will leave the Criterion deals in place and may expand it due to what seems like their good relationship. After all, Amazon sells physical media.Why would they cut it out of their bottom line.

Because they can make more money by holding exclusive streaming rights.

I don't know anyone at any boutique label who thinks that this deal means anything other than the MGM catalogue being snapped firmly shut to the likes of them

Adam X wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 7:41 am

therewillbeblus wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 2:23 pm Amazon also issues blu-ray releases of their own distributed films

They do? Do you have a list (no, I’m not being sarcastic)? At a glance, there’s virtually nothing released on disc where Amazon are the sole distributor, films or series, and likely won’t ever have a physical release.

It’s seems like it’s always taken another entity with an interest in people seeing their film available beyond Amazon Prime, to result in a home video release. Thankfully they’re not as advanced as Netflix in holding films & series hostage to their streaming service, but buying up rights to studio catalogues can’t actually be a good thing.

That's a good point, I am thinking of other companies like Lionsgate or Universal distributing their films. What I meant is that they have licensed out their films for physical releases more liberally in the past, and with the recent partnering with Criterion that seemed to be a continuation of this model.

I haven't seen anything from Amazon as a blu-ray/DVD distributor, though wouldn't be surprised to see it enter in this capacity. Excuse my ignorance on the topic, but do streaming services often approach physical distribution?

I can think of physical-media companies who've moved into streaming, but not the other way round.

MichaelB wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:10 amI don't know anyone at any boutique label who thinks that this deal means anything other than the MGM catalogue being snapped firmly shut to the likes of them

Are you including Criterion?

MichaelB wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 6:22 pm I can think of physical-media companies who've moved into streaming, but not the other way round.

Didn’t Mubi start releasing discs?

Yes

Netflix also released Stranger Things on disc themselves in the states

Shudder has released a number of their titles on disc through RLJ Entertainment (both companies are owned by AMC Networks.)

Here's the current list of titles MUBI has released on disc in the UK. Weirdly they have a mix of DVD only, Blu-ray & DVD and now Blu-ray only titles, so there is a mix of things going on there.

MichaelB wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:10 am

FrauBlucher wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 9:20 pm I do think Amazon will leave the Criterion deals in place and may expand it due to what seems like their good relationship. After all, Amazon sells physical media.Why would they cut it out of their bottom line.

Because they can make more money by holding exclusive streaming rights.

I don't know anyone at any boutique label who thinks that this deal means anything other than the MGM catalogue being snapped firmly shut to the likes of them

I was hoping George Armitage's Miami Blues might get a UK Blu-ray release superior to Shout Factory's low-bitrate Blu-ray from 2015...Michael, if Amazon proves you wrong, I hope Indicator considers it!

hearthesilence wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 9:16 pm I was hoping George Armitage's Miami Blues might get a UK Blu-ray release superior to Shout Factory's low-bitrate Blu-ray from 2015...Michael, if Amazon proves you wrong, I hope Indicator considers it!

Is that even an MGM title in the UK?

Either way, a Number of Shout's former MGM titles seem to have been licensed by other labels (Kino's announced Vincent Price titles, and according to my BFF the Kino Insider, someone has picked up the Pink Panther movies and the two Count Yorga movies,) and I think that Miami Blues is a big enough cult title that one of the other US labels might have picked it up.

Need to say, as much as I hate Amazon, I’m amused that they now own the majority of the Cannon Films library. Between Death Wish 4: The Crackdown, Godard’s King Lear, and American-Israeli propaganda film The Delta Force, it’s an unusual library for the world’s biggest company to acquire.

Also, ironically, they’re the main home of Woody Allen.