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postmodern-chuck wrote:Actually, I prefer the list below, as its a little more complete and more inclusive of an actual, living queer cinema. That, and the film's listed here are generally much better.

http://jclarkmedia.com/film/filmreviewb ... btwesterns

Well, it does include some winners in addition to the others on the previous list: Red River, Lonesome Cowboys:

Johnny Guitar (girl-on-girl action! well, not really, but campy as all get-out)

Quien Sabe?/A Bullet for the General -- absolutely agree on this one. a fantastic Spag western, a fantastic movie. Winning performances by Castel, Volonte and Kinski. And subtext galore--American involvement in Vietnam, Castel's interest in Volonte's package.

Leading Auden scholar weighs in with an interesting but essentially misguided review in the NYROB:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18712

This is a great parody... down to the logo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfODSPIYwpQ

I Netflixed Sunday Bloody Sunday based on the recommendations of this thread. An astounding and powerful film - thanks!

I think the purpose of the criticism of BBM is extraordinarily valid and important. As a het seeking to understand and overcome his own culture, family and sex, I've learned a lot from this discussion.

This thread is one of the forum's high water marks, because even when it descended into personal attacks, those attacks were at least finely crafted.

DE's purpose is clearly to be the thorn in everyone's side that forces open areas of thought that haven't yet been open. The victims of his insanely rude verbiage should appreciate the ripples of intense argument that result. Like any other quality radical/revolutionary, DE wants to expand the scope of argument, and he's chosen the chainsaw as his model. He plays a necessary and essential part in the social debate by forcing the parameters to "an extreme." Anyone who has read his articles should recognize that he's not simply a blind ideologue. My point is that he's aware that he's "preaching to the choir," but he's also keenly aware that the self-anoited choir is too convinced of its enlightenment and needs to be challenged. I'm very glad to have the challenge thrust in my face.

David Ehrenstein wrote:Leading Auden scholar weighs in with an interesting but essentially misguided review in the NYROB:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18712

Ah yes, but now the question must be asked: exactly how is it misleading?

bunuelian wrote:I Netflixed Sunday Bloody Sunday based on the recommendations of this thread. An astounding and powerful film - thanks!

I think the purpose of the criticism of BBM is extraordinarily valid and important. As a het seeking to understand and overcome his own culture, family and sex, I've learned a lot from this discussion.

This thread is one of the forum's high water marks, because even when it descended into personal attacks, those attacks were at least finely crafted.

DE's purpose is clearly to be the thorn in everyone's side that forces open areas of thought that haven't yet been open. The victims of his insanely rude verbiage should appreciate the ripples of intense argument that result. Like any other quality radical/revolutionary, DE wants to expand the scope of argument, and he's chosen the chainsaw as his model. He plays a necessary and essential part in the social debate by forcing the parameters to "an extreme." Anyone who has read his articles should recognize that he's not simply a blind ideologue. My point is that he's aware that he's "preaching to the choir," but he's also keenly aware that the self-anoited choir is too convinced of its enlightenment and needs to be challenged. I'm very glad to have the challenge thrust in my face.

...and all this time I thought he was marketing!

head-bonk.

My point is that he's aware that he's "preaching to the choir," but he's also keenly aware that the self-anoited choir is too convinced of its enlightenment and needs to be challenged.

Precisely. Choir practice is a socio-political necessity.

Ah yes, but now the question must be asked: exactly how is it misleading?

He's writing about the film he hoped Brokeback Mountain would be -- not what it actually is. For as I've spelled out in previous posts it's a gay film for straights, and therefore compeltely indifferent to the desires of gay spectators such as hmself.

David Ehrenstein wrote:For as I've spelled out in previous posts it's a gay film for straights, and therefore compeltely indifferent to the desires of gay spectators such as hmself.

Gay film for straights, that's funny. I guess, I'm one of the only straight people I've heard of that's had a boyfriend my entire life. It's by far the most honest film with gay characters I've ever seen.

It's by far the most honest film with gay characters I've ever seen.

Really? The you haven't seen very many. List available on request.

David Ehrenstein wrote:

It's by far the most honest film with gay characters I've ever seen.

Really? The you haven't seen very many. List available on request.

I've seen many and almost all contain some element of sad stereotypical gay culture. The individuals in most gay films are not normal, well adjusted people and are therefore not something I can relate to.

I've seen many and almost all contain some element of sad stereotypical gay culture. The individuals in most gay films are not normal, well adjusted people and are therefore not something I can relate to.

So are you also saying that Ennis and Jack are normal and well adjusted people because they are not stereotypical?

Perhaps mbalson is simply suggesting that you can easily be gay without agreeing with DH.

I've seen many and almost all contain some element of sad stereotypical gay culture.

Please list the movies to which you're referring. Also please indicate what you mena by "gay culure."

There are HUGE numbers of gay films, of differing very kinds, covering a wide variety of people, places, times and issues.

Because of the BBM hype and also of this thread, I overdosed myself with gay films (mostly the ones recommended by davidhare and David Ehrenstein) during the past two months. The last film I saw was the one I felt conflicted with the most - Chereau's L' Homme Blesse. Tremendously grimy and ugly. The consistent, brilliant use of sinister, nocturnal atmosphere and some performances kept me through the film but I still don't know what to make of that film as a whole. My partner loathed it though. Out of those films that I saw, the Lifshitzes - Come Undone and Wild Side are my ultimate favorites and they both hit me like tons of bricks. I can't get over how much those two films mirror my life.

The Invunche wrote:Perhaps mbalson is simply suggesting that you can easily be gay without agreeing with DH.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting.

"stereotypical gay culture" - you need me to explain what I mean by that? I seriously doubt it.

Well I'd love to have Stephane Rideau in my life -- that's for damned sure!

The last film I saw was the one I felt conflicted with the most - Chereau's L' Homme Blesse. Tremendously grimy and ugly. The consistent, brilliant use of sinister, nocturnal atmosphere and some performances kept me through the film but I still don't know what to make of that film as a whole. My partner loathed it though.

That'sthe film that best describes my high school years. Chereau had a tough personal time of it. Doug Ireland tells me that among French gay intellectuals he was for many years considered une tapette tragique.
(Can't really translate that.)

Anyone seen My Life on Ice? Director Olivier Ducastel (who also directed Adventures of Felix) created an equally astonishing film showing a young gay man's process of coming out and self-discovery in a clever inspiring manner. Etienne the young man is given a digital camera for his 16th birthday and begins a year long video diary. We get to see everything that catches his eyes even including passages of firemen hunks! His innocence is infectiously charming without becoming sugary. His video diary chronicles his coming-out/self-discovery process along with his struggle with infatuation with his geography teacher and his straight friend - in his eyes, the pursuit of love as he called that year "the year of love". A very rewarding journey handled with tremendous care, filled with appealing, believable characters. What a perfect ending. Elliptic and joyous. I really like this film a lot more than BBM.

Oh yes, that's quite a teriffic film, and I love les garcons (as they are known in France.

http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g010/ro ... ipman.html

What's most notable about it, besides the superb playing of its young lead, is the way it utilizes cinematic subjectivity. The entire film consists of the hero's video diary -- eveything he thought to record. Much of it is straightforward, such as his practice sessions. But other things are more mysterious, involving meanings we learn gradually as the action unfolds.

It's my favorite "coming out" movie.

Another thing that strikes so amazingly true about My Life on Ice is that at first young gay men tend to become obsessed or infatuated with straight men until they realize that those men are not longer worth "battling for". That is when they learn to focus this attention on men with their same sexual orientation... in order to be happy, healthy, and genuine. In this film, we get to experience this major, extremely important step that Etienne takes.

It's been hours since I saw the film. It's still growing on me.

Well not so much

obsessed or infatuated with straight men

as he is confused/upset that his best friend can't reciprocate feelings he's just become aware of himself. It's first love and first heartbreak in one package that really struck a chord with yours truly.

Yeah but remembering from my high school days, I developed a major crush on the only male friend I had - the only one who bravely sported a pink mohawk in my small hometown. He was straight and had a girlfriend. I longed for what it seemed like endless for getting even just a quick embrace from him. I spent most of my time and energy focusing on that one guy who couldn't give me what I wanted, what I dreamed for. My life on Ice captures that frame of mind, the feeling of being in that position brilliantly and honestly.

And Jimmy Tavares is Beyond Adorable. He's quite a find as the film wouldn't exist without him -- a gay teenage figure-skating champion.

Absolutely. He's impossibly unforgettable. The last glimpse of him as his boyfriend films him in the end.. those eyes! No word could describe the amazing change in his eyes..that alone teared me up in a lovely, subtle way.

And his friend is a weird mix of Jason Schwartzman and young Tom Cruise. Just about everyone in the film is very adorable. I love the mom and the grandmother. The guy who plays the mom's boyfriend is quite handsome but a bit odd.

I love the mom and the grandmother. The guy who plays the mom's boyfriend is quite handsome but a bit odd.

WellGrandma is the great Helene Surgere -- leading lady for Paul Vecchiali, Jean-Claude Guiguet, Andre Techine and Pier Paolo Pasolini.