criterionforum.org

ryannichols7 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:44 am

bdsweeney wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:40 am Suprised that Soy Cuba/I Am Cuba doesn't appear even on the longer list. I can only guess that its relative unavailability over the last decade or so has played a role.

Milestone holding that title hostage in the US is beyond frustrating admittedly. that should honestly be unlawful

for those who don't know:

Although not currently available for home use, the DVD and Blu-ray of I Am Cuba are available for Institutional Purchase, which includes public performance rights and a 3-year streaming license.

literally let us own this alongside The Cranes Are Flying and Letter Never Sent, what's so hard to grasp about this

Milestone is a tiny company that works at a glacial pace. I remember how Bless Their Little Hearts (a phenomenal film which I’m guessing is not on this list, as I haven’t had a chance to peruse it) was similarly stuck for quite a while.

ford wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:45 pm

therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:24 pm I’m a Star Wars super fan — I can’t help it, believe me I’ve tried — but ROTJ is such a weak film. And it doesn’t have much to do with Ewoks. More with its mad dash to wrap up plot lines, regurgitation of the Death Star and failure to give Harrison Ford much to do at all.

Also: after the mesmerizing photography of EMPIRE, it’s astonishing just how rough and mediocre JEDI looks (note the strange hand-held shots in the throne room). Apparently, part of this is due to how Lucas wanted it shot: a master shot for every scene with a bunch of other cameras running so he could “direct” it in post. Whereas Kersh on EMPIRE intentionally refused any such arrangement, not wanting to cede these choices to Lucas in the editing room.

I’ll never not find it fascinating that both David Cronenberg and David Lynch were offered the chance to direct ROTJ but turned it down, especially considering how — as you accurately described — visually uninteresting the film ended up being. One of the great “what could have been” stories in Hollywood.

Even more interesting that Empire’s visuals impressed Cronenberg so much that he hired Peter Suschiztky to photograph all of his films from then on, so it’s not like there wasn’t already some connection there.

ford wrote:Also: after the mesmerizing photography of EMPIRE, it’s astonishing just how rough and mediocre JEDI looks (note the strange hand-held shots in the throne room). Apparently, part of this is due to how Lucas wanted it shot: a master shot for every scene with a bunch of other cameras running so he could “direct” it in post. Whereas Kersh on EMPIRE intentionally refused any such arrangement, not wanting to cede these choices to Lucas in the editing room.

Is that why he went with a younger and less experienced director for Jedi? More control over the production?

Also, why did Lucas stop directing the series after the first one?

Mr Sausage wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:54 pm Is that why he went with a younger and less experienced director for Jedi? More control over the production?

Also, why did Lucas stop directing the series after the first one?

I know Lucas didn’t really enjoy directing and working with actors, but he loved the technical side of movie making, particularly post-production stuff like the editing, sound mixing, that sort of stuff. I think hiring other directors (and screenwriters to adapt his stories) allowed him to do the stuff he actually liked doing.

Noiretirc wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:44 pm I'm rather depressed that Lawrence Of Arabia keeps slipping. Doesn't war/bloodshed/political interference/identity confusion/god complex/failure resonate in 2023?

I suspect Lean is one of these directors who has really fallen out of fashion. There may be some love for Great Expectations and Brief Encounter (just about) but the epics are likely well off anyone's radar these days - rightly or wrongly.

MV88 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:54 pmI’ll never not find it fascinating that both David Cronenberg and David Lynch were offered the chance to direct ROTJ but turned it down, especially considering how — as you accurately described — visually uninteresting the film ended up being. One of the great “what could have been” stories in Hollywood.

Wasn't Paul Verhoeven in the frame as well? I know Hollywood had been sniffing around him ever since Soldier of Orange (which was also the reason why Rutger Hauer was cast in Blade Runner).

Noiretirc wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:44 pm I'm rather depressed that Lawrence Of Arabia keeps slipping. Doesn't war/bloodshed/political interference/identity confusion/god complex/failure resonate in 2023?

Talking of spellbindingly rich and complex 1960s widescreen epics, Marketa Lazarová came nowhere up to and including 2002 (when it was barely known outside the Czech Republic and Slovakia), came close to cracking the top 150 in 2012, but didn't make the top 250 in 2022.

Interestingly, the Criterion edition (which I believe was its first Stateside commercial release in any medium) came out a year after the 2012 poll.

MichaelB wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:12 pm

Noiretirc wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:44 pm I'm rather depressed that Lawrence Of Arabia keeps slipping. Doesn't war/bloodshed/political interference/identity confusion/god complex/failure resonate in 2023?

Talking of spellbindingly rich and complex 1960s widescreen epics, Marketa Lazarová came nowhere up to and including 2002 (when it was barely known outside the Czech Republic and Slovakia), came close to cracking the top 150 in 2012, but didn't make the top 250 in 2022.

Interestingly, the Criterion edition (which I believe was its first Stateside commercial release in any medium) came out a year after the 2012 poll.

Does "commercial release in any medium" include theatrical distribution? It must have done the repertory circuit (Film Forum, etc.) courtesy of Janus at some point. I did watch it at Lincoln Center in like 2010, but that may not have technically been a "commercial" screening.

thirtyframesasecond wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:08 pm

Noiretirc wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:44 pm I'm rather depressed that Lawrence Of Arabia keeps slipping. Doesn't war/bloodshed/political interference/identity confusion/god complex/failure resonate in 2023?

I suspect Lean is one of these directors who has really fallen out of fashion. There may be some love for Great Expectations and Brief Encounter (just about) but the epics are likely well off anyone's radar these days - rightly or wrongly.

I think that is indeed what has happened. Which is tragic as his work looks more and more miraculous by the year -- especially in 4k.

bottlesofsmoke wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:48 pm

Mr Sausage wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:54 pm Is that why he went with a younger and less experienced director for Jedi? More control over the production?

Also, why did Lucas stop directing the series after the first one?

I know Lucas didn’t really enjoy directing and working with actors, but he loved the technical side of movie making, particularly post-production stuff like the editing, sound mixing, that sort of stuff. I think hiring other directors (and screenwriters to adapt his stories) allowed him to do the stuff he actually liked doing.

Yeah, I think he likes breaking story then postproduction stuff. He seems to hate working with actors and leaving his comfort zones of 'house' and 'office in company which I own' (hey: who can blame him?). And frankly, he's better at breaking story than one would think. If you read the story conference transcript for Raiders of the Lost Ark, he's basically got the whole thing right there for Kasdan. And same with Empire: he had every story beat ready for Kasdan (Leigh Brackett's draft was apparently embarrassing and unusable, they gave her credit solely because she died during production).

Had he been born two decades later, he'd probably have been a fantastic TV showrunner.

Losing my mind at Radu Jude describing a Mekas film as a "proto-TikTok"

Never Cursed wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:37 pm Losing my mind at Radu Jude describing a Mekas film as a "proto-TikTok"

Or that he’d rather nominate IG and TikTok platforms than the movies that inspired his career path. This at least explains his recent output of uninspired shorts following several complex, clever, and creative projects. Hope he can get some help soon and maintain sobriety from these platforms so we can get more strong art from an important voice

Also, love how Michael Snow only voted for The Gold Rush plus three of his own films. Did he not believe any other films of his were worthy? What about his experimental peers?

Ekwa Msangi also voting for her own film... #-o

So glad these are up and will undoubtedly spend hours perusing in the next decade if not in the next week, but I do hope they intend to eventually have it browsable by film in addition to how it's currently set up, as that was always my favorite way to use the 2012 data: pick out a film, see who voted for it and what they had to say, and then see what else those people voted for. I realize it's probably not easy to set that up though, so I'd understand if it doesn't arrive soon or ever this time around.

10 French films for Wes Anderson. Good taste!

going to be really funny when the commentary that Adrian Martin got commissioned for is Criterion releasing Clueless

James Benning’s list made me laugh out loud

Really surprised at no Godard for Martin, no Stromboli for Llinás, and thrilled at Wes Anderson's love for Desplechin

therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:17 pm Really surprised at no Godard for Martin, no Stromboli for Llinás, and thrilled at Wes Anderson's love for Desplechin

Rosenbaum leaving out Rivette is equally surprising!

EDIT: There's not a single Tashlin film on Joe Dante's list.

soundchaser wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:18 pm

therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:17 pm Really surprised at no Godard for Martin, no Stromboli for Llinás, and thrilled at Wes Anderson's love for Desplechin

Rosenbaum leaving out Rivette is equally surprising!

EDIT: There's not a single Tashlin film on Joe Dante's list.

At least there's a Ford film on Tag Gallagher's ballot, the body snatchers haven't conquered us yet

Kim Newman has Let's Scare Jessica to Death as one of the few horror films on his list. I didn't think much of it but it was long time ago. Does anybody here think well of this film and recommends a revisit?

Rayon Vert wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:33 pm Kim Newman has Let's Scare Jessica to Death as one of the few horror films on his list. I didn't think much of it but it was long time ago. Does anybody here think well of this film and recommends a revisit?

It's great! Zohra Lampert's performance ranks with the best in horror cinema.

things i learned ---

oliver stone likes cartoons
scorcese can't count
wes anderson does not take polls seriously
geoff dyer has high standards