Holy Motors (Leos Carax, 2012)

[warren oates]

This strikes me more as a both/and than an either/or type of situation. And, like zedz says, nobody above has really being trying to claim otherwise. The film isn't a transparent or easily reducible metaphor for any single aspect of cinema, performance or modern city life.

[zedz]

Yeah, why on earth would you have to "disregard" the text of any work of art in order to appreciate the subtext?

[Black Hat]

I'm pretty sure the daughter being picked up at the party is Carax's.

What's making you insistent on this? I'm pretty positive I heard or read somewhere that his daughter's the little girl at the beginning of the film and not the one he picked up.

So I'm supposed to disregard all that and accept that it is in fact about the internet and being stuck in a rut?

Apparently yes.

Seriously tho the film has lost a bit of its shine for me upon repeated viewings, not that I still don't think it's fantastic as an overall piece of filmmaking but it is uneven in spots. Anybody else finding it doesn't hold up as well?

[repeat]

Of course one reason for the film being widely interpreted as being strictly about "cinema" is that most of these interpreters are cinephiles, a fact that Carax has also pointed out in interviews - and some of them are more prone to play "spot the references" than to engage with the bigger picture so to speak. Also they might be less well equipped to notice references to other artforms - a good example being the first scene in the hotel room, which at least in Sight & Sound was traced back to a similar scene in Cocteau's Blood of a Poet, when in fact it comes E.T.A. Hoffmann's short story Don Juan. (Another example would be the connections between Carax and Céline work, eruditely examined in this essay)

[Zot!]

I'm pretty sure the daughter being picked up at the party is Carax's.

What's making you insistent on this? I'm pretty positive I heard or read somewhere that his daughter's the little girl at the beginning of the film and not the one he picked up.

I was just trying to assign some relevance to that scene. It was by far the least theatrical, both in terms of costume and subject matter. If you accept that the girl is Carax's own, and that there is a converstation as to whether she takes after her mother (who died tragically in real life), the scene is a lot more personal and meaningful.

Okay, I'm willing to accept that there is some kind of subtext about the doldrums of being a wage slave, but the angle about technology and virtual worlds seems pretty tenuous. Even if you want to apply additional relevance to a possible subtext, the text is about cinema, and painted in some pretty broad strokes at that, far beyond simple stylistic flourishes. Direct reference to Cameras, Special Effects, Musicals, Make-Up, Film Genres, Film Music, Voiceovers are all blatantly envoked. And I guess I found that the more obvious theme, even without the references to specific films, that only cinephiles might catch.

[Black Hat]

In that case why not make that girl the Virgin Mary? Talk about assigning relevance!

[Zot!]

In that case why not make that girl the Virgin Mary? Talk about assigning relevance!

I'm afraid I don't understand. The movie is dedicated to the girl's dead mother. I'm not really doing any deep thinking here.

[domino harvey]

I haven't seen this film but authorial intent arguments are hardly ironclad proof of anything within this or any film

[repeat]

It's funny, if you Google it you find a bunch of reviews saying she plays the girl from the party - but that might just be a case of multiplied misinformation... If I'm not entirely mistaken, the daughter in question was born in 2005, which would make her seven or eight years old, and I'd say the girl from the party is slightly older. Either way I don't know why you couldn't find the scene poignant regardless of who the actress is.

Extra points Sparks on the car stereo - whatever you say, one thing you can never fault in a Carax film is the choice of music!

[Zot!]

You guys are totally right, the girl in the car is played by Jeanne Disson.

[prokosch]

But more importantly: Sparks.

[Black Hat]

I'm afraid I don't understand. The movie is dedicated to the girl's dead mother. I'm not really doing any deep thinking here.

I'm just busting your chops a little bud. If you are interested in who his daughter is it's the little girl in the beginning.

Extra points Sparks on the car stereo - whatever you say, one thing you can never fault in a Carax film is the choice of music!

Thank you! Been trying to figure out forever what that track was! What's its name?

[gcgiles1dollarbin]

Thank you! Been trying to figure out forever what that track was! What's its name?

How Are You Getting Home?

[repeat]

Yep, "How Are You Getting Home?" from Indiscreet (1975) - that and the two previous albums are essential listening for everyone, completely regardless of personal musical tastes!

[adavis53]

does anyone know how much of an improvement the image quality is in the blu ray over the DVD? i know the dvd gets mildly fuzzy at points but i don't want to shell out 20 for the blu ray unless it actually fixes that

[knives]

Watched this for the best of list. The stuff mentioned in this thread on psychology and going beyond the more obvious cinema aspects of the metaphor are interesting and certainly something for me to ponder especially as I'm not sure I'm with the film on the whole. This is really and truly made by its second half though. Ultimately Carax delivers an omnibus film which exists like many others. There are great segments, weak segments, and in the majority some okay segments. Even in that the film delivers better than most with the great segment, the signature sequel to his Tokyo short, being one of the most hilarious and best odes to French anarchy and surrealism along with some Godzilla love. I think I prefer the previous short, but the shifting of the idea from an examination of the French flag to one of Warholian fame allows it to be quite good on its own. I'd even say it has a better cut against modernity then than the more explicit one with Piccoli with the engravings upon the tombstones. The closing who are we segment may be too on the nose, but even then it conjures up something special and rare making me wish for more modern musicals. The more purely dramatic segments come the closest to stumbling with the child segment before the intermission having a nasty stench to the whole that even Carax seems to acknowledge. The other dramatic segment also doesn't amount to much though its end highlights, for me, what makes this better than the collection of sketches it ultimately is. The framing device is genuinely important giving room to comment on the segments, add poignancy where there wasn't any to begin with, and develop themes that each individual segment could not hold about aging and the artistic spirit. That the frame begins to encroach on the segments so that one doesn't know the beginning or end of each by the end only works to make his commentary more effective and, I suppose ironically for a film absurd, more real with an intimacy that more serious cinema doesn't often achieve. I'm not sure f I can endorse this a the masterpiece others find it to be, but certainly it is quite good and one of the most literal instances of better than the sum of its parts. It is a bit sad that this was supposed to be Carax's return to cinema after his exile to ads and yet it seems like no followup is in the cards.

[John Shade]

...but certainly it is quite good and one of the most literal instances of better than the sum of its parts. .

I think that's often true of surreal films, even the great ones. They work in certain episodes and there are a few themes holding together the seemingly chaotic elements. It's how I felt when watching some '70s Bunuel recently, which I still love as a whole. And to some extent it's how I feel about Woody Allen's To Rome with Love, though I actually loved most of that film and might need to offer it more of a defense somewhere.

Your point about the framing structure helping out the final dramatic scene is a good insight into the paradox of these types of films. That scene, even before the reveal, along with the cafe scene, still worked for me. But then again the weird drumming in the cathedral segment was my favorite moment in the whole film. The only one I didn't quite like was the cgi love bit.

It is a bit sad that this was supposed to be Carax's return to cinema after his exile to ads and yet it seems like no followup is in the cards.

Probably been posted here, sorry: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/adam- ... 201908918/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://lwlies.com/articles/leos-carax-a ... oney-mara/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[knives]

That's good even if still quite the wait.