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oh yeah wrote:That was a great episode but I really feel like this season was scatterbrained and not nearly as well-structured (or eventful) as S2.

I'm mostly with you on this. Season 2 was focused on a few points that were mostly wrapped up (along with leaving exciting things for the future) while this ending was sort of all over the place. Maybe that's just where these characters are at this point?

Spoiler

I was hoping to see some more resolution with Nacho, Hector, and Gus; I guess with the pace we can still wait a bit more. Mike too is kind of lurking the shadows at this point, yes?

What I like most about this show still stems mostly, I think, from its ability to create some morally complicated (maybe not too complicated) situations. For me this deals with sympathy for the characters. Plenty of times you could sympathize with Jimmy, Chuck, or vice versa. In this particular episode I think they handled Chuck's relations with HHM with the same level of seeing why each party had a point. I kind of sided with HHM for once. The kind of moral stickiness I'm talking about was epitomized by Jimmy's sort of self-sacrifice elderly yoga session too.

Spoiler

The ending of the episode referred to as haunting above does seem to say thinks might pick up sooner. Jimmy has now lost his clientele, and a few episodes back he saw how quickly drug dealers pay. My guess is by the end of next season all the players are together in some way.

Two unrelated questions I put out to the fans: any suggestion they will eventually focus on Saul's life in Nebraska? Have the creators hinted at a longer form with this?

Is the woman who plays the secretary for Kim and Jimmie the same who was Saul's secretary in Breaking Bad?

edit: Jimmy, not Jimmie as written above. I've been really off my game lately.

JohnShade wrote: Is the woman who plays the secretary for Kim and Jimmie the same who was Saul's secretary in Breaking Bad?

Yes, she is.

Also, the character's name is Jimmy. *the more you know*

Following episode 4 of this season, "Talk," it is beginning to feel as though Better Call Saul is trying to bring the show in for a landing, and in doing so lowering its stakes to a dangerously anemic level. Yes, we're seeing some of the beginnings of Jimmy McGill leaning into more exciting/crooked ways of making money now, and starting to see a path to a happy ending for Kim, and Mike's bond forming with Gus - but these are, in essence, without stakes. When Mike meets with Gus in back of a shipping center, there is no way that Gus is going to murder Mike or vice versa, because we know that Breaking Bad exists. When Nacho makes an ill-advised decision to find himself in the firing line of a Tom Clancy video game-esque gunfight, we know he will survive because Breaking Bad exists.

As enjoyable as that side of the series has been to this point as sort of a change of pace from the rest, it is a gigantic waste of time now, which is unfortunate because it's sucking up more oxygen than it ever had. With Chuck, and Howard, and especially Kim, the showrunners did an awesome job of making this series unique by introducing characters whose fates were not set in stone, but with 1.5 of them (give or take) no longer very relevant to its goings on, there is just not enough here to make it as compelling as it was in past seasons. The only hope is if the writers are also aware, and see fit to really plunge Jimmy/Saul into a bunch of high stakes lawyering (even in the form of one-off cases/capers) sooner rather than later.

mfunk9786 wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:52 pmWith Chuck, and Howard, and especially Kim, the showrunners did an awesome job of making this series unique by introducing characters whose fates were not set in stone

Don't forget Gene

We haven't seen the last of Gene.

mfunk9786 wrote: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:46 pm We haven't seen the last of Gene.

Pretty much all I want at this point is For Gene to take over

therewillbeblus wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:21 pm Season 5 premiere date set for February 23

So shines a great TV series in a weary world.

I'm counting the minutes until the return of the glorious BETTER CALL SAUL.

Same here, Roscoe. I was pleasantly surprised at how great S4 was, especially because I hadn’t watched the show at all between S3 concluding in summer 2017 and S4 finally being put on Netflix this month. My memory was thus a bit hazy, but I really think BCS does a great job keeping things riveting even though you know that, say, Mike and Gus won’t die, or Jimmy won’t stay on the straight path. The way Gilligan/Gould and co. so wonderfully focus on the minute details of each scene is refreshing in a TV landscape full of over-the-topness. Whether we know their fates or not, these characters are all so beautifully fleshed-out and vividly acted that it’s hard to look away. I loved the whole arc with Werner this past season, pretty devastating stuff even though the character became almost comically naïve at the end.

The show is terrific and season for season more consistent than Breaking Bad, even if it doesn’t yield the same degree of investment or suspense, though I’m not convinced that they’ll be able to wrap it up in a way that matches this precision (probably a healthy fear after BB completely botched its ending imo). Very curious as to how Gene’s storyline ends as connected to his past though.

therewillbeblus wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:38 am ... after BB completely botched its ending imo

I'm hoping you mean "final episode" (which I could maybe understand even if I disagree) and not "final season", which would require a review panel to look into your current Member of the Year status

Not even, I mean the final ten minutes of the final episode which was deus ex machina run riot:

Spoiler

the car’s perfect position and knowing the room where the gang would congregate coupled with Todd’s dumb reaction rising as last member standing just in time for Jesse to get his vengeance

It just felt so out of step with the intelligence of the rest of the series. The final season (both parts) were terrific, as was the majority of the final episode, with the fourth season of the show being one of my favorite seasons of tv ever. The show sits squarely in my top five and I don’t even love the first half of it.

However, it must be noted that much of the finality occurred in Ozymandias, which was perfect, so perhaps my judgment is unfair. I’m starting to get some hope back for Saul.

therewillbeblus wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:17 am Ozymandias, which was perfect

The panel has ruled that the Member of the Year status is upheld

I said it then and I'll say it now, all the Breaking Bad finale needed was

Spoiler

30 seconds of footage outside that bar of Walt being discovered frozen to death in the car, indicating that none of the events of the episode occurred outside of a fantasy of his own invincibility in his dying moments.

Would have been the perfect way to top off what had been a story leading in that direction, signaled by events large and small for nearly a decade. Instead, they wanted an ending that would play well on that night's Talking Bad, and few talk about the series' brilliance any longer.

mfunk9786 wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:31 am I said it then and I'll say it now, all the Breaking Bad finale needed was

Spoiler

30 seconds of footage outside that bar of Walt being discovered frozen to death in the car, indicating that none of the events of the episode occurred outside of a fantasy of his own invincibility in his dying moments.

Would have been the perfect way to top off what had been a story leading in that direction, signaled by events large and small for nearly a decade. Instead, they wanted an ending that would play well on that night's Talking Bad, and few talk about the series' brilliance any longer.

As a passionate lobbyist against the

Spoiler

It Was All A Dream!

ending, I have to say that in this case I really like that idea

The ending was wholly in line with the rest of the series. That’s not me defending it

Yeah, the entire series of Breaking Bad was basically how Walt is smarter than anyone in the room. It would've been nice to see the writers undercut that near omnipotence at the end but they were in love with their creation too much to throw him under the bus in the finale.

I mean, the show is about a man taking brutal control of his life after a disease forces him to confront the limits of his control. That he ends the show going out on his own terms is, yeah, fitting, even if it makes the show essentially a redemption story. He once again found a way to be in control of his destiny and bestow its fruits on those around him.

Compare to a similar, but quieter and more ambivalent version in The Shield. That ending saw as problems what Breaking Bad saw as virtues.

Yeah The Shield really did do that ending right.

Vague spoilers for The Shield

It carried an enormous power in going the opposite kind of route, and made you sit with that sterile honest realization rather than coat it in more glitter. I'm always surprised by the amount of people I know in my personal life who generally prefer that kind of bombastic loudness and yet cite The Shield's closing moments as the "best" tv show ending, which is more than just a few.