criterionforum.org

Scharphedin2 wrote:

kekid wrote:My disappointment with the Criterion box set relates to not what it includes but what it excludes. The one film in my otherwise wonderful Asmic Box not subtitled in English was Ruined Map. If Criterion had included that, it would have added value to consumers like me. As it is, those who have the Asmic will not be particularly enthused about the Criterion; those who have MoC's will be irritated that Woman in the Dunes is not available separately. Those who buy strictly Region 1 offerings will be delighted by the Criterion.

Since you own the Asmik Box, and as far as I know it included not only the short films in the forthcoming Criterion set, but even some that are unique to the Asmik Box, could you provide any comments on these short films included in the Asmik Box. Are they subtitled?

The Asmik box-set includes 5 feature-length films, four of which are subtitled in English. The two that are not included in the Criterion box are "The Man without a Map" and "Summer Soldiers". "The Man without a Map" is the one not subtitled. This is even more frustrating because the film starts with opening titles in English, and one of those titles states "English Subtitles by John Nathan". So clearly the English subtitles were part of what Asmik had access to, but due to some strange reason (probably a rights issue) decided to suppress them. The colors in the opening shot of the film are breathtaking. The quality of the 3 films Criterion has announced is outstanding in the Asmik set, and they all have English subtitles.

In addition to the full-length films the set includes 7 short films, none of which is subtitled in English.

I recognize the irritation of some people to comparisons made between the announced Criterion set and what is already available. I think it is legitimate use of the forum to compare the options. I have not complained about the Criterion set as it is, merely pointed out that an opportunity to include "The Man without a Map" (which is not available in any English-friendly version) was missed.

I recognize the irritation of some people to comparisons made between the announced Criterion set and what is already available. I think it is legitimate use of the forum to compare the options. I have not complained about the Criterion set as it is, merely pointed out that an opportunity to include "The Man without a Map" (which is not available in any English-friendly version) was missed.

Fair enough, point taken.

My recollection is that there is a rights issue of some sort concerting "Man withot a Map". Apparently the copyright holder has not approved any subtitled release (or wants too much money for the permission to make such a release). If I knew more details once, I've forgotten them. ;~}

I am interested in this box set as I own none of the films but am hearing that the commentary on DUNES is pretty good on the BFI and as a guy who makes films for a living, that is always a big sell for me so I may find myself thinking this purchase over a few times.

Scharphedin2 wrote: Is it really possible that no forum member at all has ever seen any of these films, and can offer comments on them?

I've seen 'Tokyo 58', although it's been awhile, so my recollections are pretty vague. From what I remember a lot of it has to do with the commodification of "Japaneseness" and the reorganization of Japanese image culture during the postwar era. There's actually a sequence where Donald Richie plays an American tourist ogling at some wood prints, which I think are animated somehow to startle him.

I think there's also a manifesto that goes along with its entry into the film festival.

TheRanchHand wrote:I am interested in this box set as I own none of the films but am hearing that the commentary on DUNES is pretty good on the BFI and as a guy who makes films for a living, that is always a big sell for me so I may find myself thinking this purchase over a few times.

The BFI Woman Of The Dunes doesn't have a commentary (but it is the 'director's cut' of the film so is the same length as the Criterion will be). It is the Tony Rayns commentaries on the MoC discs of Pitfall and Face of Another that I think people are talking about as being very good. It seems a similar situation with the Vengeance Is Mine disc where the Rayns commentary stays only on the MoC. Perhaps this is their response to DVD Beaver's "we don't listen to commentaries" poll result of last year? (Which would be a shame as I love a good commentary!)

I'm glad these films are getting their own region 1 release - though I already have the MoC discs I'm considering getting this set for Dunes and the short films, the booklet, the James Quandt video essays and the documentary. It doesn't seem too bad a deal for that (though this is where DVD Beaver comes in handy to tell us how long the documentary and introductions run for - right now without more details they could run for 5 minutes or 90 minutes!)

Thanks for that. I guess I was mistaken. #-o

But you did get me thinking about the Vengeance disc now....

Matt wrote:On another note, I guess this box is Criterion's way of sticking it to those who bought the MoC versions of two of the titles.

I've been wondering if "Woman in the Dunes" will be available separately -- I'm one of those who bought the MoC version of the other two films in this box-set. I take it from the above the answer is "no"?

I'd suggest the BFI release of Woman of the Dunes for those who (like me) got the MoC's.

I've not yet bought a Criterion DVD but it may well be the case that this will be my first purchase.

Over the last year or so I've become a HUGE fan of Teshigahara and his work and any excuse to see more is a massive excuse for me to buy this set. Seeing as I already own the two MoCs and the bfi disc it'll be the shorts and the video essays that are the main selling points in this set - to be honest it'd be worth it for the shorts alone.

Plus, as a fan, how can i not have several editions of the same films. Each disc has something different to offer (the MoC's have the Rayn's commentary and booklets) this will look to be a worthwhile investment in my pursuit of further understanding this great director.

Also, the covers are just gorgeous! Much prefer the stylish black and white stills.

BTW, anyone else who is a fan and doesn't already own it, make sure to purchase the biography/career overview The Delicate Thread: Teshigahara's Life in Art. It was invaluable in helping me get a grasp on the man and is an essential text in my opinion, even if some areas are fairly briefly talked about.

I've been waiting for this release for a while now, and held off on the MoC/BFI releases in hope it would eventuate, and it finally has. As others have mentioned, it is a shame The Ruined Map is not included - as I haven't tracked it down yet, and badly want to see it. It is also a shame Abe's stories could not have been included in the set, although they are a bit big.

I was just hoping for a Teshigahara/Abe box set, and although my wish didn't come true, I'm still all over this release.

Might just have to buy the Abe novels separately... speaking of which, has anybody read them?

sevenarts wrote:Huh. Weird that they wouldn't include Antonio Gaudi if they had the rights to it. I mean, where else would they put that?

I only just noticed this comment. Actually, if Criterion owns Antonio Gaudi, it's conceivably their strongest Teshigahara title in commercial terms. I imagine that the combined architecture enthusiast / design buff / Barcelona tourist market is vastly larger than the number of us who want to see obscure Japanese arthouse films from the sixties (plus you can add that particular niche to the above).

Woman in the Dunes is clearly the most commercially-viable title as it was Oscar nominated for Best Director...

domino harvey wrote:Woman in the Dunes is clearly the most commercially-viable title as it was Oscar nominated for Best Director...

I still reckon the designerati outnumber aficionados of old Oscar also-rans at least 10 to 1.

I'm not trying to engineer a pissing contest: my point is simply that the Gaudi documentary has its own substantial audience and could easily be a stand-alone Criterion title (contrary to the assumption above).

They can have Gaudi specific release rather than Teshigahara and include BBC documentary by Ken Russell and a few Spanish docs.

Antonio Gaudi is a regular staple of programming at the least cinephile-ridden of the repertory theatres in the San Francisco Bay Area. It's the Red Vic on Haight Street, and it's less a movie buff heaven like the PFA, the Stanford or the Castro, than it is a venue for concert films, political and/or spiritually-focused documentaries, pseudo-classics from the eighties and nineties, and the occassional "classic" title that might appeal to people who don't religiously check the schedules of the aforementioned cinephile havens. (Usually something by Kubrick, Hitchcock or Wilder).

Anyway, they wouldn't touch Woman in the Dunes with a ten-foot pole (even Akira Kurosawa is pushing it). But I'm thankful that I can always count on the place screening a print of Antonio Gaudi at least once a year or so. I think it's absolutely a viable stand-alone title as a Criterion DVD (though I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it packaged with a few more of Teshigahara's shorts).

I think I may have heard a rumour somewhere that Antonio Gaudi was a Criterion possibility, although I imagine it depends on how this box sells. Personally I preordered mine as soon as I was able to. I can only hope that this leads to (maybe I'm hoping too much as he's more obscure) a Matsumoto box, only I hope they don't include Funeral Parade of Roses as I have the MoC.

I'm sure there are better Matsumoto experts out there than me but I loved Shura, Dogura Magura and would kill to see War of the 16 Year Olds and some more of his shorts.

Can anyone give any information regarding the short films? I can't find any information on them; though I'm still very excited to see them.

Running times would also be appreciated.

All that has been found so far is from this post on the second page.

Back cover

BEAVER

Wow, significant improvements over the existing R2 versions of these films, I'd say. Even the MoC versions of Pitfall and Face of Another look soft next to the crisp Criterions, which display far more detail. Now I don't feel so bad about double dipping.

I was wavering and those Beaver caps definitely sold the set for me!

I had a pre-order and considered cancelling it, but not any more. this set looks great!

I'm stunned by the difference in quality between the Criterions and the R2s. The level of detail gained in the image (even with the resolution loss) is such a vast improvement over the previously available versions that I'm at a loss for words. I was on the fence for a long time, but now I'm so glad I ordered this.