criterionforum.org

Posted: **Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:38 pm**

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote:Kevin Smith will show you how not to write dialogue.

Movies by Kevin Smith in the Criterion Collection - 01
Movies by "Jean-Luc Garbo" in the Criterion Collection - 00

Tells me all I need to know

Posted: **Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:34 am**

Honestly, from what I've read about this project Criterion would be better off not releasing it. Not on the usual grounds of this movie sucks/Kevin Smith sucks/etc., but because (judging by the Clerks X, Mallrats 10th and Clerks II DVDs) this is just going to be a second disc of documentaries either made by Smith himself or made by someone in his inner circle. While there's nothing wrong with having primary sources involved, there's a striking lack of criticism present in this whole affair, and indeed there's something pathetic about a man who makes a good part of his living off of writing his own history. I mean, at least get John Pierson involved or something.

At least Criterion is presumably not having to pay to produce these special features, and if it helps keeps the lights on at Criterion how can I really complain?

Posted: **Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:18 am**

patrick wrote:...and if it helps keeps the lights on at Criterion how can I really complain?

I don't know but you've managed to...

From viewaskew's forum...

What ever happened to the Chasing Amy 10th Anniversary DVD?
The Disney/Weinstein rift happened. We were game, but the folks at Disney Home Video slowed it all to a stand-still. Jerks.

Posted: **Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:30 am**

exte wrote:From viewaskew's forum...

What ever happened to the Chasing Amy 10th Anniversary DVD?
The Disney/Weinstein rift happened. We were game, but the folks at Disney Home Video slowed it all to a stand-still. Jerks.

Breaks my heart...

Posted: **Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:07 am**

Kevin Smith & Co. have been a guilty pleasure of mine for years. And I agree with several of these posts: the story is deeper than it originally seems to be, the acting is sometimes corny/generic, the bar scenes are absolutely ridiculous, but all in all I enjoyed it enough to buy the Criterion edition. With Smith it's never beautiful camera work/riddle-laden plot/transcendent actors. It's always just this (semi) straight guy from Jersey telling his story like it is.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:25 pm**

Apparently, Criterion turned down Smith's request for a new DVD edition of Chasing Amy, so now he's pushing for BluRay.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:16 pm**

Antoine Doinel wrote:Apparently, Criterion turned down Smith's request for a new DVD edition of Chasing Amy, so now he's pushing for BluRay.

Did Criterion really told Smith that they don't double dip? Was that like a way of telling Smith that they don't want Chasing Amy in their collection anymore? As far as I remembered, Criterion has double dip in a lot of their releases without any problem or guilt.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:30 am**

It might mean that they discovered, over the years, that folks just arent going to pay CC prices for a Kevin Smith film.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:43 am**

Well, they were able release it with a lower-than-usual SRP. And there lots of high school and college students with disposable income. Maybe the market is so saturated with DVDs of Chasing Amy that it wouldn't be profitable to release it again, at least not in standard-definition.

I wouldn't be surprised if they decided for the sake of their image to try to avoid releasing films that are both lowbrow and really widely known, as they used to do in the old days.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:59 am**

Gregory wrote:Well, they were able release it with a lower-than-usual SRP. And there lots of high school and college students with disposable income. Maybe the market is so saturated with DVDs of Chasing Amy that it wouldn't be profitable to release it again, at least not in standard-definition.

I wouldn't be surprised if they decided for the sake of their image to try to avoid releasing films that are both lowbrow and really widely known, as they used to do in the old days.

If that were the case, fine. Smith should then be allowed to rerelease the film without the criterion banner, as it is still a Miramax film.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:33 am**

I very much doubt it happened the way the article suggests - Criterion aren't stupid, especially with the upcoming release of Zack and Miri. Maybe all they said was "We don't want to do SD-only reissues now" or didn't like his original idea from some months back of releasing a second disc of supplements only.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:06 am**

Why? I thought it seemed pretty clear-- "no". They already seemed to be conceding something about the content with the lower price point plus all those extras. I can't see them putting the expense (esp in this economy) into a new HD master plus new extras for a 20 buck srp release... or same thing but with a higher price point nobody will pay. I suspect the title is dead in the collection.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:01 am**

It's no more expensive than remastering any other title. But you seem to be taking the line that the reaction on this forum equals sales in the real world and it doesn't. Kevin Smith is still very bankable, especially on home video, and this is one of his most acclaimed and popular films by quite a stretch. I don't think Criterion are blind to that.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:24 am**

When did I bring up this forum? Reaction of the forum never has anything to do with anything but the reaction of the forum. And of course remastering of the film is no more expensive than remastering of any other title-- in fact it may be cheaper, since it's new(ish), and requires little-to-no MTI'ing for cleanup.

The point is that telecine in general is expensive, period. And my point is that the company, like any company right now, has little appetite for producing a brand-new product loaded with extras with a deliberately narrowed profit margin vs the rest of their product/pricing setup. And I think you over-estimate the significance of the forthcoming Zack & Miri. The film only made a bit over 5 mil profit domestically since a Halloween release. I seriously doubt many people are going to rush out and buy Z&M on disc, let alone Amy.

Believe me, if the disc was selling well for the company, they'd re-do.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:27 am**

I think Schreck's point was also that regardless of how many units the title moved, it would almost certainly be priced below Criterion's standard rate, which means far less profit for the label and thus even less reason to bother

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:34 am**

Indeed. The unusually low price point was what I meant just above vis a vis "a deliberately narrowed profit margin".

Taking that into consideration with the fact that they'd have to "outdo" the previous edition extras-wise (at least that's been CC's style in the past.. they tend to upgrade to lavish editions), I think the idea is just not profitable enough, and indeed even possibly risky, given the poor performance of the last Smith feature (Zack & Miri) in R1-viewer land.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:01 am**

To Narshty's point, Smith's fanbase will buy up anything (see the countless Evening With Kevin Smith DVDs) and a Chasing Amy BR edition stacked with even more features isn't that much of a stretch, and would probably end up making Criterion more coin - even at a lower price point - than something like El Norte.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:53 am**

Indeed, Smith's films traditionally do poor-to-mediocre business on their theatrical engagements, then go on to outsell that vastly on home video, which I'd suspect has much to do with not generally being able go to the cinema drunk or stoned at 2am and for the always-generous supplements as anything else (same-ish with the Jackass crew, still grinding out product).

Put it this way: sales of Criterion's release of Dazed and Confused caused a significant jump in Image's revenue for that quarter, even though Image got a thinner end of the wedge than other labels it distributes (and that was on its third DVD release), and Criterion's number one best-seller is still Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. The "it'll never sell" argument for Chasing Amy is sheer wishful thinking. Even in economically repressed times, it'll still sell more than The Human Condition or The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover, and there's no sign that they're going to strike them from the slate.

If it is at Life Aquatic prices ($32.99 for a 2-disc set), it'll shift more copies than at their usual RRP to cover the price difference (and then some). I can't see much cost beyond a new transfer and basic editorial work - Smith seems to be willing to go out on a limb to put the set together. Blu-ray makes a lot of sense because, without wanting to over-generalise, I can see a lot of crossover between PS3 owners and Kevin Smith fans.

To offer another theory though, the only serious thing that could be giving Criterion cold feet is if Disney is still contractually the distributor, which they seem to have avoided with the new batch of Miramax licenses, and don't want to put in the extra work until they can re-negotiate and distribute it via Image.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:21 am**

The only "wishful thinking" is probably the idea that CC wants secretly to do something it publicly said it doesn't want to do.

CC still releases every BD on DVD as well. I see no sign that the line is going to stop potentiating revenue for their hi-def transfers with a release on what is still their bread and butter line-- SD. It's pretty much their biz model.

Whether or not The Smith Crowd will in this special case make them their money back on BD alone owing to their technological predilictions-- I don't think it's something they're interested enough in to work out in the board room.

Everything else but the news is pure speculation. The onus is on you guys to produce a shred of evidence that this secret plan is in effect. Personally I haven't seen Chasing Amy or a single Kevin Smith film so frankly have no opinion either way.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:36 am**

HerrSchreck wrote:The only "wishful thinking" is probably the idea that CC wants secretly to do something it publicly said it doesn't want to do.

Well, it's all speculation - the sustenance of this forum.

CC still releases every BD on DVD as well. I see no sign that the line is going to stop potentiating revenue for their hi-def transfers with a release on what is still their bread and butter line-- SD. It's pretty much their biz model.

Whether or not The Smith Crowd will in this special case make them their money back on BD alone owing to their technological predilictions-- I don't think it's something they're interested enough in to work out in the board room.

Well, I didn't mean that it was a BD-exclusive. I was taking it for granted everyone realised dual-format releases were Criterion's policy for Blu-ray candidates.

Everything else but the news is pure speculation. The onus is on you guys to produce a shred of evidence that this secret plan is in effect. Personally I haven't seen Chasing Amy or a single Kevin Smith film so frankly have no opinion either way.

Then what was all that stuff you wrote above? And why are you exempt from having to back anything up? Why pretend you're above the discussion and always were just because one of your claims was rebutted with actual evidence?

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:38 pm**

Narshty wrote:Then what was all that stuff you wrote above? And why are you exempt from having to back anything up? Why pretend you're above the discussion and always were just because one of your claims was rebutted with actual evidence?

Narshty for heaven's sakes, please stop putting words in my mouth.

Where did I act like I was above the discussion?-- if I was I wouldn't be having the discussion. I thought we were doing fine even if we didn't agree.

What is it that you'd like me to back up? The fact that Chasing Amy is not being rereleased has already been factually reported. I didn't challenge the facts with speculation, and accuse those who believe it of wishful thinking. If the company has turned down a director knocking personally on their door offering a ready-redo, and distribution rights are already in place making renewal relatively smooth, then chances are it's going to have something to do with either projected profitability, or overall disireability of the product in the line vis a vis the present aesthetic disposition of the company and it's owners.. or both.

Here's the source report used by bluray.com, from Home Media Magazine.

Kevin Smith High on Blu-ray

Kevin Smith
By Fred Topel | Posted: 26 Nov 2008

Filmmaker Kevin Smith has an idea for a special Blu-ray Disc edition of his film Chasing Amy. The film’s DVD was released by Criterion, which rejected Smith’s proposal for a 10th anniversary edition because Criterion does not double dip. However, now that Criterion is releasing Blu-rays, Smith proposes adding new extras to that edition.

“For Chasing Amy’s 10th anniversary, we wanted to put out a fat DVD with a look-back documentary and this Q&A that we had shot a couple years ago with the full cast,” Smith said. “Now we’re going, ‘Hey man, let’s do it as a Blu-ray so it won’t be double dipping. It will be for people who want to own it on Blu-ray. So it’ll have everything that was on that first DVD plus all the extras we want to bring to it.’ But I haven’t heard word back on that yet.”

Smith also joked that his first film, Clerks, shot in black and white on a shoestring budget, should be the last of his films to make it to Blu-ray.

“Clerks on Blu-ray would be a total waste of Blu-ray technology, man,” Smith said. “That’s a movie that I don’t feel needs to be on Blu-ray until Blu-ray is the only format. Then, of course, I would like to see it be on there.”

Smith is a recent convert to Blu-ray. He did not want to rebuy his whole movie collection in a new format, until Paramount gave him a 103-inch TV and Blu-ray player.

“It is the most astounding television I’ve ever seen in my life, until recently they introduced an even bigger one,” he said. “This f***er is so big it looks like one of the small screens at the Beverly Connection. It’s really big, and it sits about five feet from the end of my bed, maybe even less. Maybe two, two-and-a-half feet. I lie down in bed when I watch TV, so you’re right on top of the screen. You’re no longer watching the movie. You’re in the movie.”

As an actor, Smith doesn’t mind seeing himself in high-definition.
“The first movie I watched on Blu- ray was Live Free or Die Hard, and I was really in that movie,” he said. “So I was able to stand next to myself on screen full length and be like, ‘Wow, I’m fatter.’ It was very, very cool. So I fell in love with Blu-ray. Now I’ve been rebuying all the stuff I already have but I don’t care because now I just want to get high and watch a Blu-ray Disc.”

How CC will respond to his publicizing his proposal (probably in hopes that talking about it will create the momentum that will cause it to materialize... which he seemed to do last year too, to no avail) remains to be seen. My hunch is we'll probably just hear nothing until Smith says something about it.

As for evidence beyond the report, CC never releases exclusively on Blu-- at least not yet. SD is still the bread and butter of the line for them. The fact of their release pattern backs that up. Whether they break it exclusively for Smith is an open question, of course anything is possible-- but until there's a YES my assumption is last years NO still reigns. Personally I think that if they knew Smith's crowd would make them all this money, they would have pulled a THIRD MAN: begun by releasing the SD w new HD transfer in 07 (and capitalize on the films decade anniversary btw), while planning to maximize the HD pass via the BD (which they knew was coming long ago) in 08/09.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:01 pm**

You make a good point Herr re: Criterion's pattern of upgraded SD and then BD release. That said, are there any issues with the current Chasing Amy transfer that an upgraded SD would improve? If not, then the decision to go BD with extra features (and perhaps a discount for previous owners of the SD) seems like a no-brainer. That said, I do agree with you that SD is still their (and most studios) bread and butter and that any idea of a Chasing Amy standalone BD won't be until at least 2010. That said, if Criterion does decide to do a one off for this title in 09, they would be in the unique position of being the first studio/company to put Smith on BD, which will carry some cachet with View Askew community.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:41 pm**

Chasing Amy is the eighth best selling criterion on amazon.com right now. Why don't you view the film finally and let us know what you really think Herr?

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:11 pm**

Uh, has Herr come out against the film in his arguments? I don't think so. Herr has made a very reasoned assessment as to why Criterion may not go Blu with this film as Narshty and I have reasoned why they might. While I'm sure Herr can think of million better things to do than to sit down and watch a Kevin Smith film, that hasn't factored into anything he's posted.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:13 pm**

He just might see what all the demand is about.

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