criterionforum.org

souvenir wrote:but why alter something after a decade?

Ask Spielberg and Lucas....

I didn't remember the Futura-esque font from the first time I saw it, but if I can fnd my old VHS I'll post captures of the original font, assuming it's anything anyone cares about seeing?

Yeah, I'd like to see the difference between the two.

One of the interviews (I can't remember which, probably the Baumbach solo) shows the old title fonts if you want to see.

domino harvey wrote:Futura-esque font

That's what happens when you start hanging out with Wes Anderson.

Jeff wrote:That's what happens when you start hanging out with Wes Anderson.

Or with Stanley Kubrick, apparently...

I just wanted to post this recommendation from ESPN's Sport's Guy. It's a totally unpretentious admiration of Baumbach's film from his "Seal of Approval" column:

Bill Simmons wrote:10. Kicking & Screaming
One of my top 20 favorite movies of all-time ... and it's finally out on a Criteron DVD, no less! Yes, that deserved an exclamation point. Everyone mistakenly believes that "Singles" and "Reality Bites" were the defining Gen X movies, and maybe they were to some degree (especially the music). But "Kicking & Screaming" was the best Gen X movie -- by far, actually -- and unlike the other two, it still holds up. The only reason the DVD happened was because it's Noah Baumbach's first movie and he made a big splash with "The Squid and The Whale" last year.

A couple of additional notes:

A. I will never understand why Josh Hamilton didn't become a bigger star; nobody else could have played Grover. It's the kind of part Ben Affleck or Dermot Mulroney would have just botched to smithereens back in the day.

B. What if I told you that Ari's wife from Entourage gets naked in this movie? Is that something you might be interested in?

C. This isn't just the best movie to capture that weird year after college when nobody knows what they're doing with their life, as far as I can ascertain, it's the ONLY movie like that.

D. The fact that some people confuse this movie with the insufferable Will Ferrell soccer comedy from last year genuinely injures my soul.

Andre Jurieu wrote:

Bill Simmons wrote:B. What if I told you that Ari's wife from Entourage gets naked in this movie? Is that something you might be interested in?

I bet this point is the real reason you like the review, isn't it, Andre?

tryavna wrote:

Andre Jurieu wrote:

Bill Simmons wrote:B. What if I told you that Ari's wife from Entourage gets naked in this movie? Is that something you might be interested in?

I bet this point is the real reason you like the review, isn't it, Andre?

Maybe

I must admit Perrey Reeves is pretty hot when she's busting Ari Gold's balls. Not to mention, Simmons imitating Landau, (hilariously) imitating Bob Evans is its own reward.

Ahhh, a great picture this. It's nice when Criterion can turn up a bona-fide forgotten gem from the American cinema in the last decade just as easily as a foreign classic from 50 years or more ago. Truly, I'd never heard of this film before they announced it.

It's very easy to see how people can fall so hard for this one. It surprised me how quickly I forgot Baumbach's presence (both his writing and directing) and was just engaged with the characters without any barrier or distraction. It's strikingly assured - he hits his stride straight off and it never falls into that trap of independent filmmaking: the nagging feeling that the only reason people are talking so much is because there's no budget for anything else. Indeed, the self-mythologising of the packaging and menus annoys me a bit, not least because what remains with you after the end isn't the wordplay and quotes but the tone and feelings of the film.

Narshty wrote:Ahhh, a great picture this. It's nice when Criterion can turn up a bona-fide forgotten gem from the American cinema in the last decade just as easily as a foreign classic from 50 years or more ago. Truly, I'd never heard of this film before they announced it.

I totally agree with you. K & S was a nice suprise for me.

Narshty wrote:Ahhh, a great picture this. It's nice when Criterion can turn up a bona-fide forgotten gem from the American cinema in the last decade just as easily as a foreign classic from 50 years or more ago. Truly, I'd never heard of this film before they announced it.

Were you very surprised to feel this way Narshty? I haven't seen the film yet but I was wondering whether it might have a Metropolitan 'self-aware discussion' feel about it.

What was your opinion about Baumbach's other work like his co-scripted Life Aquatic or Squid and the Whale?

I'm actually surprised by how much I enjoyed this film. Anyway, Reverse Shot chimes in.

Is this movie more like The Squid and the Whale than it is like Metropolitan (which I'm well aware Baumbach had nothing to do with)?

Matt wrote:Is this movie more like The Squid and the Whale than it is like Metropolitan (which I'm well aware Baumbach had nothing to do with)?

I would say so, considering it's more critical of its characters than Stillman's movie, and probably more nostalgic for a period in life than it is for a class of society. Yet, as nostalgic as it gets, Baumbach isn't really all that pleased with the decisions and actions of his characters and he pretty much openly admits their insular stance is hindering their maturity.

Plus, I thought it was funnier than Metropolitan, and probably less snooty.

Thanks. It sounds safe to add to my Netflix queue.

I thought there was as much pseudo intellectualism from a bunch of students in that one than in Metropolitan, but in fact I slightly prefered the latter. Having recently seen The squid and the whale, which I really liked, I was disappointed by Kicking and Screaming.

Thanks. I'll put it at the bottom of my Netflix queue.

colinr0380 wrote:Were you very surprised to feel this way Narshty? I haven't seen the film yet but I was wondering whether it might have a Metropolitan 'self-aware discussion' feel about it.

To an extent, but the acting and writing is far better, not to mention funnier. The discussion is also about themselves as people rather than all sorts of sociological pontificating which makes it easier to take. The overall emotional impact genuinely surprised me - the punch-in-the-gut of the final scenes is a testament to the talents of Baumbach and Josh Hamilton.

colinr0380 wrote:What was your opinion about Baumbach's other work like his co-scripted Life Aquatic or Squid and the Whale?

I vastly preferred it to either of those, which just left me cold. Both have an annoying tendency to truncate their scenes before there's a sense they've played out properly and neither had a script (or, at least, a final cut) that gelled in any sense. The long mobile takes of Kicking and Screaming were far more appealing than the handheld, chop-cut tactics of Squid, at least for me, and made the movie as a whole feel more "complete".

The film's obvious bedfellow in the collection I'd say is Withnail and I - both are wry, literate comedies about young men shirking their real-world responsibilities with plenty of mighty chuckles but still real despair at their core. I don't think K&S is quite on the same level, but it's well worth 95 minutes of anybody's time.

I prefer "The Squid and the Whale" to "Kicking and Screaming", but I'm quite a fan of "Kicking" nonetheless. I think "Squid" is clearly a more assured film with a larger emotional pallette and a more apt cinematic style. The decision to shoot handheld and 16mm gives the film a real immediacy - or perhaps just the lack of that Hollywood polish - and makes it seem more akin to the French New Wave, even perhaps as though it were of that time.

I disagree somewhat with Narshty's criticism about "truncation" of the scenes - though that's clearly the style here - and again I think it's the New Wave influence. I believe Noah was going for a particular tumbling rhythm, with each scene careening into the next without fades to black, grand pauses, or other demarcations of the narrative. I may be totally wrong on this point, but I think Noah specifically cites Malle's "Le Souffle au coeur" as a model for "Squid" in this regard (as well as having some kinship in subject matter). However, "Souffle" has long been my favorite Malle film - by far - and I had just viewed it again on Criterion's fantastic release before seeing "Squid" for the first time, and so I wonder if this might be something I sorta considered to myself and then turned into Gospel.

As for the Anderson stuff... I found the "Life Aquatic" script (and film) to be lacking and inferior to both "Squid" and "Kicking" (and for that matter "Metropolitan"). I like Wes, but I think he does better with a writing partner like Wilson. As closely as Wes and Noah are identified, I find little in the two films by Noah I've seen that I relate to Wes's. Although I'm a fan of both, I could easily understand someone liking the one, and disliking the other.

I think Anderson's films have too many crutches for me. I find that he uses wry humor as a way to bulk up poor character development. It's not bad at first but it gets old. Baumbach is similar, only he uses the dysfunctional family paradigm instead of wryness. It's still a crutch, but it doesn't annoy me as much, at least not yet.

Though I still can't see any Baumbach in Life Aquatic. Either he wrote it with Anderson as a complete antithesis to Squid, or Anderson's voice as a director has a major impact on how the script was interpreted. You can make the connection that Bill Murray and Owen Wilson are the same father son relationship that Baumbach obsesses over, but it's gives a far less emotional punch than that from Kicking and Screaming and Squid.

As for the "New Wave" influence on Kicking and Screaming, I love the film dearly, but it looks more like an hour-long dramedy for the WB than it does a New Wave film. Just a thought.

justeleblanc wrote:As for the "New Wave" influence on Kicking and Screaming, I love the film dearly, but it looks more like an hour-long dramedy for the WB than it does a New Wave film. Just a thought.

I wasn't referring to "Kicking" as being New Wave influenced. Rather, I was referring to the handheld, 16mm look of "The Squid and the Whale", as well as that film's apparent similarity to Malle's "Souffle" in form and subject matter. I agree that "Kicking" has none of these new wavey elements.

I confess I don't really know what a WB dramedy is like... unless it's like "Buffy", in which case I know it very well! I can see where "Kicking" shares some similarities of style and subject matter, but then "Kicking" is much more of a conventional studio effort than "Squid", with Noah clearly straining at the conventions of such fare. And transcending them, more often than not, I think.

I was picturing Gilmore Girls... mostly in the scenes where they are all sitting around the bar and talking and Stoltz comes over and leans up against a post and watches.... very WB. But in a good way!

Just rented this, and was surprised by how much I liked it. A key distinction between this film and Metropolitan is that Baumbach and his actors have a firmer grasp of comic timing (Chris Eigeman always had it). This is quite a gifted cast, and their skill caused me to laugh out loud during it, whereas Stillman's movie generally raised more of a smirk. Granted, it was one of those warm smirks that last throughout much of the film, an indication of how enjoyable Metropolitan is. Still, I was especially impressed by Carlos Jacott (Otis), a truly funny guy, and memorable in every scene he graces, from bemoaning the one-hour time change in Milwaukee to stumbling through the book club meeting. Too bad he hasn't popped up in many other films, although he's quite memorable in his brief appearance as John Malkovich's agent in Being John Malkovich.

All in all, a pleasant surprise. Funny, touching, all that. And the short film Conrad and Butler Take A Vacation is pretty damn hilarious.

I agree with you on Jacott. He has a much bigger role in Baumbach's two follow-ups, MR. JEALOUSY and HIGHBALL. Though for me, Eigemann was always a bigger draw. He made METROPOLITAN the great movie that it was, and his character in JEALOUSY is absolutely brilliant. I can't tell you how many times I've quoted with my friends "Highly experimental and very erotic" as descriptions.

Jacott now has a bit part on Studio 60.