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Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 4:21 am**

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 5:53 am**

Looking over the Beaver review, I'm rather in awe. This hadn't really been a release I'd been considering picking up (renting seems pointless, as the book is the biggest extra), but I'm starting to waver. I felt disappointed by Ugetsu. I bought it in the wake of the year-end-list hype and the simple, elegant ghost story just seemed very light. With all of the buildup, once it was done I had that awful "That was it?" feeling I so rarely get. I certainly plan on revisiting Ugetsu, but the experience made me a little wary of further Mizoguchi exploration. Sansho by comparison seems more meaty (and the presentation stunning!), but I'm still not entirely convinced I should pick it up.

I know I'm probably in the minority for not being knocked over by what little Mizoguchi I've seen, but is there anyone out there that can see where I'm coming from that may be able to help me out? Can someone not be wild about Ugetsu and still really enjoy Sansho?

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 7:11 am**

I am with you in that Mizoguchi does not do for me what Ozu and Kurosawa does. I was not particularly taken by Ugetsu or Ronin or several others of his, but I am a Japanese film fan and though almost never buy a Criterion blind (the expence is rarely worth the risk) I will certainly rent it on Netflix and then if it strikes me, buy the DVD.

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 7:31 am**

arsonfilms wrote:Looking over the Beaver review, I'm rather in awe. This hadn't really been a release I'd been considering picking up (renting seems pointless, as the book is the biggest extra), but I'm starting to waver. I felt disappointed by Ugetsu. I bought it in the wake of the year-end-list hype and the simple, elegant ghost story just seemed very light. With all of the buildup, once it was done I had that awful "That was it?" feeling I so rarely get. I certainly plan on revisiting Ugetsu, but the experience made me a little wary of further Mizoguchi exploration. Sansho by comparison seems more meaty (and the presentation stunning!), but I'm still not entirely convinced I should pick it up.

I know I'm probably in the minority for not being knocked over by what little Mizoguchi I've seen, but is there anyone out there that can see where I'm coming from that may be able to help me out? Can someone not be wild about Ugetsu and still really enjoy Sansho?

I love both films, but Sansho definitely struck a deeper chord in me. Both films have that quality that some people label "transcendent." However, to me at least, Sansho was more powerful in this respect, possibly for not including the otherworldly ghost story elements.

Because of the deep tragedy of the lives that unfold in the course of the story, Sansho is almost unbearable to view at times. We are reminded from the very first shot in the film that the events depicted in the film took place many centuries ago, and that all the characters are dust. And, maybe because of this understanding, the film becomes even more powerful. We see the evils that people are capable of, and we see the will to do good, and we see the way that people are crushed by their destinies, and because we know that in the face of the eternal all of it amounts to a "last minute" struggle against the inevitable, the film attains a tragic weight of Greek proportions.

I am sure that others with greater viewing experience and insight into Mizoguchi can elaborate further. I have seen less than 10 of his films, but Sansho is the one that I would recommend without any reservations to anyone. I think -- your experience of Ugetsu notwithstanding -- you should give Mizoguchi one more chance, and obvioulsly, the Criterion disc of Sansho will be a thing of beauty with a lot of contextual information (I especially look forward to the stories that are printed in the booklet).

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 7:51 am**

The book sounds really interesting, but I don't think the movie is worth double dipping (I'm aiming for the MoC box). I was a tiny bit underwelmed when I saw it after everyone talking about it so much. But who knows, maybe if I read that book, I'd appriciate it more. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad, but while I don't like Kurosawa at all, I do prefer Ozu and Yamanaka over Mizoguchi.

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 8:21 am**

arsonfilms wrote:Looking over the Beaver review, I'm rather in awe. This hadn't really been a release I'd been considering picking up (renting seems pointless, as the book is the biggest extra), but I'm starting to waver.

It's a gushing review, but looking at the screencaps the first and fifth caps look like they have some compression issues - slight blurriness, possible edge enhancement. This might be compression on the caps rather than the originals. I'll be interested to hear what reviewers using projectors think of the transfer. As I have this on VHS I think I'll wait to see what MOC comes up with before splashing the cash.

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 8:59 am**

And is it going to have Rayns commentary and a comparable book?

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 12:42 pm**

Back cover an spine

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 12:52 pm**

"Sansho" is pretty much in the vein of "Ugetsu" -- other late Mizoguchi films are a bit more varied. Even if one doesn't fall in love with either of these, don't give up on Mizoguchi without checking out "Gion Festival Music" (A Geisha), "Crucified Lovers" (my personal favorite) and "Street of Shame" -- all of which are quite different from each other (and Ugetsu and Sansho).

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 2:17 pm**

In further response to arsonfilms - I am a huge Mizoguchi fan, principally on the basis of "Sansho" and the above-mentioned "Gion Festival Music." I have seen "Ugetsu" several times - and own the dvd - and have always felt vaguely unsatisfied by it - certainly in comparison to these other two films. (I will also perhaps show that I am a fool by saying I was also not entirely thrilled by "Oharu" or "Chrysanthemums" - but I've only seen each of these a single time.)

I have only seen "Sansho" once - on vhs, over 5 years ago - and undoubtedly my reaction this time will be different - but I have since considered it one of the greatest films that I had ever seen. My recollections as to why are somewhat hazy, but principally I remember finding it visually beautiful - my recollection is that the compositions and shots were spellbinding - in my opinion quite beyond Ugetsu. And then also that the story was simple and elegant but also unsparingly brutal. Merciless, but not in a over-the-top-kind of way. ("Ugetsu" strikes me as a little corny and undeveloped at times. I do not recall having this reaction to "Sansho.") All that said, it was 5 years ago, and perhaps my sentiments about this film cannot be trusted. And what the hell do I know anyway?

And, again, you can count me as someone who isn't really swept away by Ugetsu - a fine film, but not one of my favorites of all time. For me, Sansho is another matter entirely. I cannot wait to get my hands on this.

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 10:45 pm**

Sorry for the off-topic, but Bijomaru Sword and Five Women around Utamaro have just become abailable in my country. I only know Ugetsu and Crucified Lovers. Are these worth a blind buy?

On-topic: can't wait to get sansho!

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 11:08 pm**

Paupau wrote:Sorry for the off-topic, but Bijomaru Sword and Five Women around Utamaro have just become available in my country. I only know Ugetsu and Crucified Lovers. Are these wort a blind buy?

Utamaro is great -- one of my favorite Mizoguchi films.

Bijomaru is one of the least successful of Mizoguchi's films -- despite a fine cast. His Musashi Miyamoto (from the year before) -- by contrast -- is an utter delight. Alas, nobody seems to be releasing this little gem.

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2007 2:54 am**

Michael, Mizoguchi's "Miyamoto Musashi" is available on DVD from Kurotakagi Gumi

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2007 3:53 am**

jonah.77 wrote:Mizoguchi's "Miyamoto Musashi" is available on DVD from Kurotakagi Gumi

Is this a legit operation? Fansubs? Whatever?

davidhare wrote:Curiously Utamaro is probably my least favorite post war Mizo.

You really like "Victory of Women" better?

I think Utamaro clearly outclasses every other post-war 40s Mizoguchi film except "Love of Sumako the Actress" (and even in that case, I think Utamaro is a bit better).

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2007 8:50 am**

Michael Kerpan wrote:
jonah.77 wrote:Mizoguchi's "Miyamoto Musashi" is available on DVD from Kurotakagi Gumi
Is this a legit operation? Fansubs? Whatever?

It's a one man company that sells movies and TV shows recorded off that Hawaiian TV channel that shows Japanese material (Kiku?) that already has professional subbing, and also sells fansubbed copies of Japanese movies taken from DVD. So it isn't legit. Though in this case the movie is in the public domain, isn't it?

I have this very DVD which I have not watched in full, but a quick peruse suggests it is taken from a VHS release or TV broadcast and has fansubs. Not the best quality but just watchable. Running time is 55:02.

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2007 1:22 pm**

PhilipS wrote:It's a one man company that sells movies and TV shows recorded off that Hawaiian TV channel that shows Japanese material (Kiku?) that already has professional subbing, and also sells fansubbed copies of Japanese movies taken from DVD. So it isn't legit. Though in this case the movie is in the public domain, isn't it?

I have this very DVD which I have not watched in full, but a quick peruse suggests it is taken from a VHS release or TV broadcast and has fansubs. Not the best quality but just watchable. Running time is 55:02.

Thanks for the information.

Recent Japanese court decisions have created quite a bit of a stir, seemingly expanding the scope of public domain status quite a bit.

Fansubbed version of commercial DVDs are problematic (if the copyright holder chooses to make a fuss -- as there can be copyright protection on the DVD itself, even if the movie is PD). Public domain material taped off would be a bit less iffy -- except for the copyrights held by subtitle creators.

I'll have to keep this company in mind when looking desperately for things not otherwise available.

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2007 4:28 pm**

PhilipS wrote:It's a one man company that sells movies and TV shows recorded off that Hawaiian TV channel that shows Japanese material (Kiku?) that already has professional subbing, and also sells fansubbed copies of Japanese movies taken from DVD. So it isn't legit.

I would also add that these are DVD-R recordings of varying quality. I've had a few of his titles fail within less than two years.

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2007 11:56 pm**

How's the commentary on this one?

Posted: **Sat May 05, 2007 12:14 am**

Gary Tooze wrote: Supplements include a thoroughly professional audio commentary by Japanese literature professor Jeffrey Angles. He examines the various versions of SanshÃ´ dayÃ» and where Mizoguchi and the writers, Fuji Yahiro and Yoshikata Yoda, took liberties with the original Ogai Mori story. Pretty high-brow stuff but after introducing himself in Japanese, Angles goes on to give an entertaining and informative commentary. There are some short gaps where he lets the narrative flow and times where he himself narrates/explains some less than obvious plot details. In short it is as professional and prepared a commentary as I have heard this year. No one who bothers to listen will be disappointed.

Posted: **Sun May 06, 2007 3:06 pm**

This is slightly off-topic but I'd be pleased if someone (Michael?) could say a little more about Musashi Miyamoto. There's very little information around about this film on the Web and I'd be intrigued to find out more.

Posted: **Sun May 06, 2007 4:19 pm**

Murasaki53 wrote:This is slightly off-topic but I'd be pleased if someone (Michael?) could say a little more about Musashi Miyamoto. There's very little information around about this film on the Web and I'd be intrigued to find out more.

Isn't he the character Mifune plays in Inagaki's Samurai trilogy? Seems like that would be a good place to start, as would this Wikipedia article.

Interestingly enough, I've just asked Michael another question elsewhere. He's going to be busy today....

Edit: Silly me. I just realized that you were talking about Mizoguchi's movie, not the historical/legendary figure. My mistake.

Posted: **Sun May 06, 2007 5:52 pm**

Mizoguchi's version of Musashi Miyamoto is a wonderfully quirky and low-key one (compared to the norm -- based on what I've read).

It roughly covers the same story as part three of Inagaki's series (and part 5 of Uchida's) -- with Miyamoto's climactic duel with Kojiro Sasaki on Ganryu Island. Here, Miyamoto (played by the wonderful Chojuro Kawarasaki -- who starred in Yamanaka's "Kochiyama Soshun" and "Humanity and Paper Balloons" and Mizoguchi's "47 Ronin") is living in the woods as a near hermit, devoting himself to devotional sculpture (just finishing a wooden sculpture of Kuan Yin / Kannon). He still gets involved with protecting the weak, though -- on his comparatively rare visits to town. His repose is disturbed by the arrival of Kinuyo Tanaka and her "brother" -- whose father was unjustly kiled by Sasaki and want to be trained in martial arts so they can try to seek revenge. Miyamoto reluctantly agrees -- but while the two are under his protection, Sasaki's thugs find the them and murder the brother.

At this point, Miyamoto tells Tanaka that she should not involve herself in seeking revenge further, the fight is now his. He seeks clan authority for a duel, which is granted. Sasaki, publicly willing to fight, tries a sneaky shortcut, sending some of his thugs to assassinate Miyamoto on the way to the duel. Obviously, this plot fails. Miyamoto is incensed -- and devises a plan for fighting Sasaki that shows his disdain for his lack of virtue. The fight has to be seen to believed -- and I'm not saying another word about how this is presented.

Unlike "Bijomaru" which is patently stage-bound -- this seems to be mostly shot on location. The cinematography by Minoru Miki (who worked with Mizoguchi frequently from 1933 through 1946) is absolutely gorgeous.

Posted: **Sun May 06, 2007 7:02 pm**

All I remember about the film is, that it is about 45 minutes long and some wonderful camera work by Mizoguchi. Its different from other Mushashi stories - both kids come to Musashi asking him to teach them how to use the sword for revenge (I haven't seen this plot in any other Musashi films). The VHS copy was really bad, but its still a good movie. I have to see it again.

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 9:22 am**

Michael & Tomas. Thanks for your comments. I've steered clear of the Criterion Trilogy on the assumption that these films are just chambara style adventure stories.But Mizoguchi's version has intrigued me ever since I first heard of it and so I'll take the plunge and get hold of the DVD.

Posted: **Fri May 11, 2007 6:29 pm**

Got my copy today from dvdpacific.
Again a lovely package. Beautiful design, a great looking book. Haven`t seen the film before though, so that`s something to look forward to for sure.

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