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This is very disappointing news. For us Europeans it basically heralds the beginning of the end when it comes to importing discs from the US.

This is exceptional news. WB is the one studio whose high definition support has been aces all around, and WB has been on the right side of history from the early days of DVD on.

Warner moving to Blu exclusively not only heralds the end of this pointless format war, but it's a vote of confidence for the future of high definition packaged media.

davidhare wrote:There was ONE good result from the format war - apart from the bickering here and everywhere over competing investments and rivalries, and that was the price cutting war that went on, including software. I hope the prices stay low!

I'd say that one of the main reasons why publishers and hardware manufacturers began their push for HD was to allow them to make more money out of their properties. DVD wasn't profitable enough for the patent holders of the technology that was used, so they developed the two standards that we have now. Now that Blu-ray seems to have the upper hand I'd say that it is less likely that prices remain at their current low level. Not for the discs but most certainly not for the hardware.

Ouch! That does sting a little, but oh well. I'll buy a blu-ray player when I don't have to worry about them becoming out dated or when the PS3 goes down in price even more.

davidhare wrote:Was Warner being bloody-minded in holding off the announcement until after Xmas when they made a killing on their HD DVD Blade Runner sets (but the Blu-rays were mysteriously out of stock?)

Clearly, WB wanted to make sure that it could sell all the Blade Runner, Kubrick, and Harry Potter HD DVDs it had in the pipeline at Christmas.

davidhare wrote:Sony are currently doing a "Free" PS3 deal with every Bravia x and XBR series LCD. Tempting (I always wondered about the 52inch.)

Was Warner being bloody-minded in holding off the announcement until after Xmas when they made a killing on their HD DVD Blade Runner sets (but the Blu-rays were mysteriously out of stock?)

That is a little annoying about Warner keeping quiet, otherwise I would have used my Best Buy gift card on something else other than the HD Blade Runner set (though I guess I did technically get the 5-disc set cheaper than the regular 5-disc DVD set.) But otherwise, oh well. I didn't buy too many discs. Basically got my free ones and then bought Bourne Ult. and the last Harry Potter in a "buy one get one" deal (and then Blade Runner of course.) Was thinking about Zodiac, might still get it if it goes down in price in the future.

Actually, now I wonder, with this will the Blu-Ray group no longer feel the need for "Buy one get one" sales?

A frustrating announcement, as Warner was always very supportive of HD-DVD until the management shift earlier in the year. It's unlikely that I'll continue to buy any more HD releases, since WB was the studio I bought from the most, but I don't see myself running out to sell my existing collection, either.

It'd be nice to see Sony reversing what I perceive to be a rather consumer-unfriendly image by getting the players into a more reasonable price range, along with fixing the ridiculous MSRPs of some of their disc releases (Fox is particularly guilty of this gouging, too) and getting all of the involved studios focused on many more and better catalog/classic titles. Sadly, I don't imagine much of this, if any, will be happening for another 12 months or more. Until then I'll be back to viewing the high def game from the side lines.

Cosmic Bus wrote:A frustrating announcement, as Warner was always very supportive of HD-DVD until the management shift earlier in the year. It's unlikely that I'll continue to buy any more HD releases, since WB was the studio I bought from the most, but I don't see myself running out to sell my existing collection, either.

It'd be nice to see Sony reversing what I perceive to be a rather consumer-unfriendly image by getting the players into a more reasonable price range, along with fixing the ridiculous MSRPs of some of their disc releases (Fox is particularly guilty of this gouging, too) and getting all of the involved studios focused on many more and better catalog/classic titles. Sadly, I don't imagine much of this, if any, will be happening for another 12 months or more. Until then I'll be back to viewing the high def game from the side lines.

I agree with most of what you said about Sony. I would think Sony would have even less of an incentive to lower the prices of players. I like to think maybe Sony, Fox and Disney will start to release more titles but they were never competing with HD-DVD anyway it was always about DVD and that's a huge mountain to climb.

Goodbye, Toshiba HD-A3...you're less than 48 hours old and you're going back to the store for a full refund!

R.I.P. HD-DVD

Blue over Red, this can only bode well for the upcoming Presidential election

domino harvey wrote:Blue over Red, this can only bode well for the upcoming Presidential election

That all depends on the power of the evangelicals, my friend; so let's cross streams now and curse the Huckabee campaign.

I digress.

Cosmic Bus wrote:A frustrating announcement, as Warner was always very supportive of HD-DVD until the management shift earlier in the year. It's unlikely that I'll continue to buy any more HD releases, since WB was the studio I bought from the most, but I don't see myself running out to sell my existing collection, either.

It'd be nice to see Sony reversing what I perceive to be a rather consumer-unfriendly image by getting the players into a more reasonable price range, along with fixing the ridiculous MSRPs of some of their disc releases (Fox is particularly guilty of this gouging, too) and getting all of the involved studios focused on many more and better catalog/classic titles. Sadly, I don't imagine much of this, if any, will be happening for another 12 months or more. Until then I'll be back to viewing the high def game from the side lines.

What I'm worried about Sony is not only their unfriendly customer image, but also their arrogance. They have already made many people mad by releasing to many versions of the PS3, including the 40GB and 20 GB that aren't backwards compatible. For some reason, this company thinks that they are the only game in town and tend to make their technology in that vision. Remember the UMDs for the PSP? There is always something about Sony diminishing their quality in production when they are on top of sales or technology. They rush things out and send to the market many defective products just for the rush of Christmas sales instead of focusing on delivering next gen tech without the kinks. Just google Cybershot camera and see how many negative reviews about bad quality are out there.

davidhare wrote:But here's a question directed straight to Lee Kline and Nick Wrigley:

IF you guys decide to release titles in BD are you able to guarantee with any degree of certainty you would not be region coding them?

It may not be their decision - region codes are sometimes contractually forced by the rightsholder. This is particularly true of Japanese titles for some reason.

So the answer is clearly "no", and I'd be surprised if Lee and Nick answered differently.

Is Blue-Ray backward compatible?
That is, do standard Dvd's play in BR machines?

Lemmy Caution wrote:Is Blue-Ray backward compatible?
That is, do standard Dvd's play in BR machines?

Yes, and the Blu-ray players will also upscale your standard definition DVD to improve its image on high def televisions. The better processors out there for this process (Faroudja is one) really do make it worthwhile.

Well, that's an awful nuissance, for a few reasons;

- So much for only having to have on HD drive.
- So much for getting a cheap BluRay drive any time in the near future, with less competition now.
- Region coding could pose a problem. It was already a nuissance with HD-DVD when every new disc brought the possibility that my (dialup) computer wouldn't play it without an update.

Well, I've gotten a lot of use out of my $250 HDDVD drive (a price which I likely wouldn't have gotten without a format war) and I'm sure I'll continue to get use out of it (some 30 HD-DVDs in my collection, one or two current Warner titles I still plan on buying, a number of worthwhile Universal and Paramount titles)

Unfortunately, there's no way I'd pay the high prices of an Australian bluray drive* (do they even sell them yet? to play movies?) and, even ignoring the ethical issues, I simply couldn't download the HD movies region-free on a dialup connection. So, seems my HD purchases will be dropping over the next year.
Nonetheless, I'm buying a set-top box this week (and more stations are transmitting in HD. Lawrence Of Arabia was even on the other day (a HD title I dearly want to see) and I have a ridiculously large number of unwatched DVDs. Warner may be gone, but I imagine it will be at least another year until I start to notice.

As for the complete end of the format war; there is still the interesting case of Paramount. Seems there in some kind of contract to release exclusively HD-DVDs. Universal's response will be interesting; they stuck with HD even when they were the only major studio exclusively supporting the format.

*Anyone know why Amazon, with their cheaper American prices, can't sell electronics? Is there some kind of weird law there?

Region coding sucks, and people are rightfully sore at Blu-ray for incorporating it. Lack of region coding is without a doubt the great thing that HD-DVD had in its favor.

But it's naïve to think it won't be circumvented on BD. Modded players are already cropping up, and sofware solutions are available. It'd be ideal to have the players region-free out-of-the-box, but we'll only see more and easier ways to get around this nuisance. Even if future big brand players are never made region-free except for modding, the smaller companies like Oppo will surely be offering global-friendly models. Firmware upgrades or a simple hack via the right combination of key pushes on a remote will be available on some independent brands, no doubt. Until then, let's be grateful only a minority of BD titles are region-coded, and let's hope it stays that way.

The best thing about the end of the war is that Criterion and the other boutique labels can start releasing titles knowing they won't soon be obsolete. The selection of worthy titles on both formats to this point has been paltry. Both formats understandably focused on blockbusters and popcorn flicks to earn early mainstream adoption, but now that there will be only one format, the fence-sitters and niche audiences can be drawn in with more classics and the kinds of films we'd rather see. Big budget fare will still be the focus for the time being from the major studios, but the good stuff will finally start to come.

Donald Brown wrote:The best thing about the end of the war is that Criterion and the other boutique labels can start releasing titles knowing they won't soon be obsolete. The selection of worthy titles on both formats to this point has been paltry. Both formats understandably focused on blockbusters and popcorn flicks to earn early mainstream adoption, but now that there will be only one format, the fence-sitters and niche audiences can be drawn in with more classics and the kinds of films we'd rather see. Big budget fare will still be the focus for the time being from the major studios, but the good stuff will finally start to come.

I have absolutely no idea what the BFI's plans are (and this isn't just because I'm contractually barred from revealing anything: I genuinely don't know), but I do know that they've been mastering in HD for a good few years now.

So it would be relatively easy to reissue, say, Distant Voices Still Lives, The Edge of the World or the Quay Brothers set in HD (to cite three titles where I know HD masters exist).

davidhare wrote:The region coding occasional imperatives for say BBC or MoC so far have been based on the 6 region SD regime. How if at all will this differ from the - in essence - two region regime for BD? I/e/ USA and Europe?

I'm guessing that BFI DVDs will remain encoded for Europe - even if the BFI owns the material outright. There's a commercial reason for this: it's a bargaining tool when licensing BFI-owned materials to other regions by assuring distributors that the BFI is doing everything it can to prevent circulation of its materials outside its own territory. This is why the Quay Brothers set is specifically set to Region 2 in the UK and Region 1 in the US, and I imagine the same will be true if (hopefully when) it gets reissued in HD.

(DISCLAIMER: I'm not in any way presuming to speak for the BFI here - this is strictly guesswork, albeit highly educated)

And further to this how much HD ready datacines/Digibetas/ whatever are in fact 720p rather than 1080 i or p?

I honestly don't know what the BFI's HD standard is, though I'd guess it's much more likely to be 1080p because there are archival reasons for ensuring the highest possible quality over and above the distribution requirement. Also, many of the HD masters have also been used for digital screenings at cinemas, where 720p is less likely to cut the mustard. But I'll see if I can get a definite answer when I'm back at work.

Of course, the BBC has a much bigger headache, as the overwhelming majority of its back catalogue only exists on SD video - and ancient analogue tapes at that!

Hadn't thought of those issues on digital television (I don't think I've even watched television in over a year)
Still, most definitely, holding off on Bluray for another year or more. $700 is just far too much for being able to watch a few more titles in HD (and downright unthinkable when you know that there's Bluray players available for $250 in America)

Anyway, I was thinking earlier about ways HD could still win (not because I seriously think it will happen, but because I enjoy the whole "defending an indefensible position" type of challenge.) So, anyway, here's what I've come up with;

- If Universal abandons HDDVD, then Paramount is in serious trouble with their contractual obligations. Raises the possibility that they'll do something desperate like releasing HDDVDs at ultra-low prices (could turn around the format war, and regardless it would be a win for me.)

- Warner might discover, twelve months from now, that HD adoption is still as slow as ever and now they're only making half the profit (most of the people I know aren't even aware that 2 formats exist. So I doubt that 'customer confusion' is as big an issue as Warner thinks) and go back to format neutral. (Remember, lots of HD-DVD users do have broadband (and their own views on the morality of file-sharing,) so I doubt they're all going to be running out and buying expensive, region-locked Bluray players)

- The 'Star Trek' factor. With Paramount's approach of releasing the new 'original series' in HD.DVD combo, every obssessive Trek fan is going to want a HD-DVD player.

Meanwhile, here's hoping that at least this year sees HD-DVD releases of The Godfather and, most importantly, Apocalypse Now (a movie absolutely made for High Definition)

Darth Lavender wrote:Still, most definitely, holding off on Bluray for another year or more. $700 is just far too much for being able to watch a few more titles in HD (and downright unthinkable when you know that there's Bluray players available for $250 in America)

Rumour has it that there's a strong possibility that Apple will announce something Blu-Ray related this year (maybe as soon as Steve Jobs' keynote in ten days' time) - and if that happens, drive prices will almost certainly plunge as every other PC manufacturer jumps on the bandwagon.

Though Apple has a minority share of the market, it has a strong track record in acting as a catalyst for the widespread adoption of new technologies.

Recall that Sony is not the only manufacturer of Blu-Ray. There are others, and they will (also) ultimately drive down the price of the hardware. (Which, as I mentioned a few pages back, even now, is not really all that much; there is the pricey stuff, there always will be, but there is cheaper stuff too, and there will be even cheaper in the future. As with anything, you get what you pay for.)

(Amazon does sell hardware, just maybe not to overseas destination (which may be what was meant in an earlier post); it's where I got my Panasonic.)

I'd certainly like to see the software pricing fall (I certainly spend more on that than I do hardware), and its quality improve even more on some titles, and hopefully a single hi-def format should help this along.

Finally, the digital mastering of at least some films is done at resolutions beyond 1080p (e.g., I recall it being higher for Berlin Alexanderplatz and Blade Runner, and certainly it's so for many others). It gets down-converted when the DVDs and hi-def DVDs are mastered. And it's been an evolving process, so as with most things digital (CDs, DVDs), the technology will continue to improve with age.

Knock on wood it will catch on. Once everything here goes hi-def only (i.e., TV broadcasts early next year), there should be some further increase in its rate of adoption. Perhaps not as dramatic as DVD, but likely much moreso than DVD-Audio and SACD.

It looks like Toshiba is trying to claim that Warner Bros. is in breach of contract by going exclusively Blu-Ray...

Toshiba's Comment on Announcement from Warner Bros. Entertainment of Its Exclusive Support for Blu-ray Disc Format

TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner
Bros.' decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact
that there are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of HD DVD. As central members of the DVD Forum, we have long maintained a close partnership with Warner Bros. We worked closely together to help standardize the first-generation DVD format as well as to define and shape HD DVD as its next-generation successor.

We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite
of the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market in 2007.

We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other
HD DVD partner companies and evaluate potential next steps. We remain firm in our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the consumer.

Hopefully this battle isn't about to get even longer and more petty. Of course, given Toshiba's poaching of Paramount, do they really have any legs to stand on?

Sony has an internal Blu-ray drive coming out for sale next month for a listprice of $199. I figure that by the time there are enough international BDs that I'm interested in getting, I should be able to get one for closer to $100. Add Slysoft's HD region-free software and region coding ceases to be a problem.

patrick wrote:Hopefully this battle isn't about to get even longer and more petty. Of course, given Toshiba's poaching of Paramount, do they really have any legs to stand on?

There's no reason why the Paramount/Dreamworks-deal would be of any consequence to Warner. If there really is some sort of agreement between Warner and the DVD Forum or Toshiba then they must obey it. I doubt that those contracts would be that strict though, since Warner allready supported Blu-ray before they went exclusive.