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I have no belief this show is over. At least not by Lynch's volition, and the continuation may not be a show, but I have no belief Lynch doesn't intent for it to continue. He loves these characters -- and, at least as importantly -- these actors too much to let things linger as they do now. Especially on the heels of the truly amazing hours 16 and 17; episode 18 has many great scenes but by itself doesn't seem to add up to being anything on its own -- which is fine!

This is based on one viewing only so we'll see if my views change upon a rewatch. But I'm pretty confident Lynch and Frost have more in mind here.

But, but, but, didn't Lynch said the storylines would get closure at the end of these 18 episodes ?

tenia wrote:But, but, but, didn't Lynch said the storylines would get closure at the end of these 18 episodes ?

I've never treated "closure" and "resolution" as synonymous. Given how much I enjoyed these 18 hours, though, I would gladly watch more.

I guess some people feel the opposite, but afterwards I re-visited episode 17 on its own, and found it to be a quite satisfying conclusion to the series. Lots of loose threads still hanging open, but I enjoyed my time in episodes 1-17 and am much happier where the story leaves off there, than where it was at the end of Season 2. So overall with some time to process, I'm very glad that Season 3 exists now, though I probably won't be re-watching episode 18 again anytime soon unless a Season 4 gets announced.

kcota17 wrote:How does everyone feel about

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the reveal of Judy being "jow-day"? I was pretty disappointed by that. It seemed like a quick and lazy reveal. That and the green glove / BOB orb were the only disappointments to me.

Metachloreans?

Feiereisel wrote:

tenia wrote:But, but, but, didn't Lynch said the storylines would get closure at the end of these 18 episodes ?

I've never "closure" and "resolution" as synonymous.

I might have poorly used the word. "Closed" might have been better. In any case, the supposition was that the whole stories would be contained into the 18 episodes, not obviously left open.

One thing you gotta give to Lynch is his mastery of being able to burn images into people's minds. The ending is still with me this morning.

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Anyone surmise why Carrie Page has a dead guy and an assault rifle in her house? Did anyone notice if the the RR Diner was still called "Norma's?" Starting to think Cooper may have crossed into a parallel universe.

So it turns out I had a particularly bad TV setting turned on during this entire season which obscured pretty much any scene that took place in a dark room (namely, all the important ones). I realized it after reading about the final episode and hearing people say

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the sex scene

was really creepy, even though I couldn't really tell what was going on throughout it. After playing around with the settings for a bit, I discovered had my blacks set to "Dark" on my TV, when they should have been light. So I was seeing

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when I should have seen

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It makes me wonder what else I missed this season- other parts that were similarly murky were the long night highway drives and the creepy tracking shots through the boiler room. Well, I guess that's as good a reason as any to rewatch!

tenia wrote:

Feiereisel wrote:

tenia wrote:But, but, but, didn't Lynch said the storylines would get closure at the end of these 18 episodes ?

I've never treated "closure" and "resolution" as synonymous.

I might have poorly used the word. "Closed" might have been better. In any case, the supposition was that the whole stories would be contained into the 18 episodes, not obviously left open.

Then my response is to pose this question: How does our understanding and interpretation of this decades-long story change or evolve if the ending as provided is taken as the "closure" Lynch alluded to?

Part 18 is dense in itself, but especially so when situated in the context of everything that precedes it--the series, the film, and this new run of episodes. I'm not Peaks-literate enough to begin unpacking it in a highly specific (at least in terms of the series' mythology) fashion. But viewing the entire final hour as some sort of abstract metaphor seems like a good place to start with regard to interpreting some of the stranger images, and, aside from being beautifully shot, the ominous and oppressive darkness of 18's last half-hour seems particularly significant.

The film is the talking, and I've always felt that Lynch, though obtuse, plays fair. If the final scene is the button on the whole story, what a note to go out on.

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jindianajonz wrote:It makes me wonder what else I missed this season- other parts that were similarly murky were the long night highway drives and the creepy tracking shots through the boiler room. Well, I guess that's as good a reason as any to rewatch!

Definitely! At least go back for the boiler room stuff--it looks incredible.

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EDIT: Also, jumping off of mfunk's terrific writing regarding the finale on the previous page:

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That Cooper's plan leaves him--hyper competent by nature--completely befuddled needs to be reckoned with. Even having become an all-knowing force that exists beyond reality, his efforts to save Laura (a play on "solving" the crime at the core of the series?) lead to irresolution, suggesting that even explicitly rewriting the past cannot spare the series from the trauma of Laura's death.

oldsheperd wrote:

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Did anyone notice if the the RR Diner was still called "Norma's?" Starting to think Cooper may have crossed into a parallel universe.

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Was it ever? I thought one of the negotiations over the diner franchise was what to call it- Norma wanted to keep it the RR, while the business man said "Norma's RR"
had more character

oldsheperd wrote:Gotta say the ending of part 18 was pretty haunting and unexpected. I see a lot of parallels with Lost Highway in the last episode.

There's a pretty direct one at one point.

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The scene where Diane makes love to Cooper (or is it Linda and Richard?) then splits the next morning. Shades of the one in Lost Highway Alice and Pete make out in the car.

Some of it felt like No Country For Old Men to me as well, but that could be a stretch.

Here's another and bear with me.

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From the motel scene to the very end, I have nothing to directly base this on but maybe the world Cooper and Laura/Carrie are in is perhaps a truer reflection of the real world than what the show has been so far. What we see of Twin Peaks feels more like a ghost town that has maybe seen better days.

Feiereisel wrote:EDIT: Also, jumping off of mfunk's terrific writing regarding the finale on the previous page:

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That Cooper's plan leaves him--hyper competent by nature--completely befuddled needs to be reckoned with. Even having become an all-knowing force that exists beyond reality, his efforts to save Laura (a play on "solving" the crime at the core of the series?) lead to irresolution, suggesting that even explicitly rewriting the past cannot spare the series from the trauma of Laura's death.

First of all, that is very kind of you.

Second (and I am now having trouble finding it) the most shattering thing I read this morning was along the lines of “Lynch is watching you, you are not watching him. He knows that by wanting more of this particular universe, you are robbing Laura from the angels, and dooming her to live in our terrible world yet again. All of these people, but particularly that poor tortured girl, were doing so much better without you.”

I’m still shaken by that idea.

mfunk9786 wrote:

Feiereisel wrote:EDIT: Also, jumping off of mfunk's terrific writing regarding the finale on the previous page:

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That Cooper's plan leaves him--hyper competent by nature--completely befuddled needs to be reckoned with. Even having become an all-knowing force that exists beyond reality, his efforts to save Laura (a play on "solving" the crime at the core of the series?) lead to irresolution, suggesting that even explicitly rewriting the past cannot spare the series from the trauma of Laura's death.

First of all, that is very kind of you.

Second (and I am now having trouble finding it) the most shattering thing I read this morning was along the lines of “Lynch is watching you, you are not watching him. He knows that by wanting more of this particular universe, you are robbing Laura from the angels, and dooming her to live in our terrible world yet again. All of these people, but particularly that poor tortured girl, were doing so much better without you.”

I’m still shaken by that idea.

I read a review of episode 18 from Indiewire this morning that had some pretty interesting points. I'll piggy-back on Funk's interpretation.

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Cooper is trying to undo the death of Laura and is thus trapped inside his own dream/nightmare. It's like the recurring dream where no matter what you do to find resolution or change the narrative the result never changes.

I also think that Cooper's last words of the show,

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"What year is it?"

Is a bit of a reference to the fact that Lynch is going back 25 years to rehash an old show and the fact that there is still many fans of the show.

Haha. Lynch turned Twin Peaks into Inland Empire by way of Lost Highway.

I loved it, even though there's much I still need to process.

Part 18, where

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electricity turns Dianne and Cooper into Linda and Richard and places them in an alternate reality and/or timeline, really struck to the heart of all the themes Lynch incorporates into his universes. Especially Cooper's drive to "save" Laura. Noble acts that grow from a devotion to goodness aren't always guaranteed to bare unspoiled fruit.

It was magnificent.

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I think Cooper gets it wrong from the minute he claims "the past dictates the future." The past doesn't dictate anything; the PRESENT does. Thinking he can change the future by changing the past is the highest hubris imaginable. I know laughably little about Buddhist teachings, but this seems perfectly in line with Lynch's meditative practices.

This ending still palpably, physically hurts. It's amazing, but it's far bleaker than I was expecting.

I feel less sure today that there will be more. I'm still inclined to think that way, but I'm not sure. Still so much to process. It was a tremendous eighteen hours and I'm planning to give it a few months before a rewach.

Anyone figure out why Carrie Paige

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had a dead guy and an assault rifle in her house. Also, when Cooper told her he was FBI I believe she asked, "Have you found him?"

Or is this typical Lynchian "here's something unusual that has nothing to do with anything."

mfunk9786 wrote:Second (and I am now having trouble finding it) the most shattering thing I read this morning was along the lines of “Lynch is watching you, you are not watching him. He knows that by wanting more of this particular universe, you are robbing Laura from the angels, and dooming her to live in our terrible world yet again. All of these people, but particularly that poor tortured girl, were doing so much better without you.”

I’m still shaken by that idea.

Agreed--the show is always the most compelling and intriguing for me when it's working at that level. The idea of looking too long at something or looking too closely is also something Lynch loves to explore, which is reflected in the structure of the two episodes--Part 17 resolves a lot of plot, only to give way to the pointed unknowing of Part 18.

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Like Cooper moving through the door, it crosses the threshold from good to bad. The "looking too closely" concept is also dovetails with the investigative aspects of detective and police procedural stories, the core of the series, despite how far afield it occasionally gets. In the end, solving, or attempting to solve, the crime reveals only that it can't be undone, and the result is that the trauma associated with Laura's murder--or the atom bomb--cannot be dispelled, only more sharply outlined.

kcota17 wrote:How does everyone feel about

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the reveal of Judy being "jow-day"? I was pretty disappointed by that. It seemed like a quick and lazy reveal. That and the green glove / BOB orb were the only disappointments to me.

It was ridiculously stupid. The tacky visual effects, convoluted coincidences and general absurdity of the resolution of the 'plot' I feel are very intentional.
It doesn't absolve the show of how difficult it is to watch such jarringly bad material, but I think overall it was worth it for that superimposed image of Dale Cooper, watching that easy sci-fi TV ending that culminates in the weird punch successfully having beaten evil into submission, with that look of utter confusion. Because this isn't the answer. It never was.

I think the new Twin Peaks reflects how Lynch has matured since the original show. He's always been about expressing huge, inexplicable evils, but he's shifted in what he portrays as the source of that evil. '90 Twin Peaks expressed the ideology running through the works of that period (Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart): evil is an exterior force, the scary thing that intrudes upon our comfortable lives that we have to fight against (in original Twin Peaks, Bob).
The original Twin Peaks finale swiftly and bluntly dismissed Wyndham Earle, after weeks of cliffhangers about him, as a way of acknowledging that the show was never really about that, it was about 'Bob', 'the evil that men do'.
This new show just as bluntly dismisses many episodes of build up and plot contrivance about fighting Bob. Cooper's confused stare now bears witness. Why doesn't it feel right? The good guys have united, evil's been put in its place. Isn't this it?
This new finale updates Twin Peaks in line with the conception of evil (and sorrow) that we've seen in Lynch's work since the original: evil isn't an external force. It comes from within.

The same impulse of wishing to do good and fight 'evil' in all its forms that makes Cooper so powerful as a hero also dooms him. Too comforted by awareness of his moral superiority, he's always been too sure of himself. Just like when he arrested Ben Horne instead of Leland. Just like when he wandered into the Black Lodge at the end of season 2. This new finale reflects on both those moments a really profound way.

The Cooper that always tries to assert his will, work everything out, vanquish evil once and for all will always fail. We live in a world of profound, unanswerable pain. There's no solution to the great mystery of why we suffer.
Exiting the Black Lodge with a plan to outsmart Bob, the force that could take Laura Palmer from this earth, was just as foolish as entering it with the hope to overcome the mystery of evil through sheer force of will 25 years ago.
So we go back to the image of Cooper's great confusion over the red curtains, just as we saw after Maddy's death. He was so sure! And yet, evil persists. The world spins.

Cooper is too steely and determined to see good triumph over the odds that he couldn't do as Bobby and Donna did on that night: feel the pain and finality of loss. Grieve. And then move forward.

Episode 17 and 18 ended in the same way: Cooper tries to save Laura, but he can't. He couldn't then, he can't 25 years later. Episode 18 goes deeper into the tragedy of his inability to stare inexplicable pain in the face. To feel grief in a healthy way.

The Dougie Jones that we see in episode 18 is a Cooper no longer doomed by his fatal flaw. A Cooper that can accept the mystery of life. Move forward from grief, and enjoy the love of those close to him.

The other Cooper shows us the end result of being consumed by his need to question, to 'solve'. He can't enjoy what he has - the love of Diane. Endless questioning has not made him happy. It's caused his relationships to deteriorate - that's what I see the sex scene as expressing. He's so obsessed with trying to solve something that can never be solved that he has lost sight of what initially was driving him. He is changing into someone else before Diane's eyes, as she lays her hands over his face while she tries to get closer to him.

If we can't just be, like Carl Rodd, who still gazes on the trees with joy, or like Jacobi or Jerry, having fun their way, no matter what society makes of them, what's the use in living? What's the use of being so utterly brought down by all the external bullshit, all the grief and sorrow, if we are one of those privileged enough to have the option to be free of them?
What was Agent Cooper thinking? He was missing the forest through the trees.

This show seems massively, massively influenced by Lynch's mediation. It's all about acceptance and letting go.

Anyway, thanks to anyone reading these scrambled thoughts written after a night of no sleep, haunted by what I just witnessed. This finale was some of the most perfect filmmaking I've witnessed since, oh...Inland Empire.

oldsheperd wrote:Anyone figure out why Carrie Paige

Spoiler

had a dead guy and an assault rifle in her house. Also, when Cooper told her he was FBI I believe she asked, "Have you found him?"

Or is this typical Lynchian "here's something unusual that has nothing to do with anything."

I see it as abstractions to illustrate the fucked up headspace of a victim of abuse - an affirmation of the lasting impact of raw horror on the level of a man raping and murdering his daughter. And I see Laura's final scream as both the scream of a woman who's life is coming apart at the seams realising she's trapped in a nightmare scenario, and of Laura realising that this is it. The resolution is never coming. She will always be dead.

I see the Sarah Palmer material in the same way: horror movie abstractions to portray what's left in her life after a trauma of the like she was witness to. Pure hatred for herself and for Laura. The frightening absurdity of irresolvable grief.

Finch wrote:Not sure how I feel about them retconning FWWM and the original first season. Part 18 on the other hand I thought was very good. I knew we were headed for another cliffhanger with 15 minutes to go.
...
I think Mssrs Lynch and Frost have gambled a bit too openly on there being a fourth season.

I really don't think it's a cliffhanger at all. It's, at least on an emotional level, a definitive closure to the world of Twin Peaks in the way that the original finale isn't. Yes, mysteries are left open, like Audrey, but they're there to provoke questions, not because it's an unfinished story, as it was 25 years ago

Finch wrote: Given the retconning that takes place in part 17, if they don't get the opportunity to address this in another season or even a feature film, they risk stripping the first season AND FWWM of a lot of their power.

I don't think it's really a retcon. Laura always died. That's the final message. She's dead. And yet, she 'lives' (or at least, the hollow shell of her, Cooper's conception of her) because she's still alive to him, as long as he refuses to let go.
Her soul still went through the voyage it did in Fire Walk With Me. That was the end of her story. This is the end of Cooper's story: a descent into myriad hallways and parallel 'what-if' possibilities that culminates in the same essential truth: Fire Walk With Me happened, Laura is gone.

Finch wrote:And what was Laura whispering into Cooper's ear that made him so shocked in Part 2 (repeated here again)?

That she is dead, and that he can't stop that. I think it being so much of a rhyme to the moment when we last saw Cooper utterly confused is the key to it all. He'll never solve the case. He even brings back the song that reminds us of that feeling. It is happening again, and again, and again and again, as long as he won't let go.

Magic Hate Ball wrote:

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I don't think that's Jeffries in the teapot at the end, given the appearance of the Jumping Man running down the stairs. The 8 clue is a trap and a taunt - Laura will be circling the infinite Judy worlds forever, and it's Cooper's mistake to join her, which is why the show ends on that image. Cooper will be bound to the mysterious whisper until he dies.

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Didn't the symbol break into 7, 0, 8? 708 is the number of the Palmer house, which might be the clue about Judy's location

I do think Jeffries revealing both a symbol for infinity and an 8 are him warning Cooper that even if he goes back to 2/23/89 to save Laura he will give himself over to living in a continuous loop of trying to bring back what can't be brought back. In some way Cooper represents the viewer, especially in the finale: Reading into every sign and symbol presented to us. Cooper, like us, has no other reason to go to Judy's Cafe except for the fact that Jeffries mentioned something about Judy. And even though his visit to Judy's does lead him to Carrie Paige, he is, inevitably, lead to a dead end. It's like Lynch is saying to us, "Laura is dead. Her Dad killed her. No matter how many times we go back to Twin Peaks we can't change that fact." Evil doesn't make sense, it's opaque. Cooper, like us, and unlike the other residents of the show, refuse to accept evil as an abstract, enigmatic force. Thus, we, like Cooper continue to loop in circles, trying to find the answer to something that, ultimately, has no solution.

Just going to mask my entire commentary instead of fretting over particular spoiler tags- (Leftovers spoilers within, too)

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I loved the performance in that final scene, where Cooper stopped and walked haltingly forward toward the house, turning his hand slowly - it resembled the motion he made when he exited the Black Lodge for the last time, and seemed to dial the curtains back with his wrist - and it looked like he was reverting a little bit to Dougie's catatonia.

The ending works for me because it's a coda to the "Twin Peaks" resolution, where sunny Agent Cooper shows up to bring everything into order, but the universe of the show has set up so much weirdness that it could be a hinge to take a fourth season in any number of directions. Dale and Diane seemed to know exactly what they were doing, or thought they did, driving through the 430 mile mark; Cooper asked Diane, when she first transformed from Naido, if she remembered "everything", and their motel room rendezvous seemed to me like it could be read in two ways, either as a sad ending, where Cooper had gone from "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" Jimmy Stewart to "Vertigo" Jimmy Stewart, haunted and relentless, or a kind of surveilled performance as the first part of a larger ploy - he tells her to turn off the light, she asks what they do now, they act as their environment expects, and she departs with a kind of coded explanation.

What's odd is that presumably Laura Palmer was displaced into some alternate "universe", "reality", "timeline", but Cooper doesn't go to that reality to bring her back through some electric portal to her true home in Twin Peaks, as far as we saw - he brings her to an alternative Twin Peaks, somehow believing that will be meaningful or impactful.

The scenes at front doors reminded me eerily of the finale of "The Leftovers" - not only because the third season did so much with alternative, imagined, supernatural realities as places of psychic danger or catharsis, but specifically the moment when Kevin shows up at Nora's door, pretending that rather than having been searching for her year after year, he stumbled on her town in Australia, and pretending that instead of being a pained ex, they had only briefly known each other in New York, and he'd regretted not pursuing her. His pretense is complicated by the possibility that we were seeing a deceased or "crossed-over" Nora in her own alternative reality, where she was being met by a new, persistent Kevin.

It seemed very possible that Carrie was a sort of tulpa for Laura, or that she was Laura, with a fresh identity, pretending not to recall her parents or past. The final scene at the Palmer house door had the same wary, cagey feel on both sides.

There are also more mundane possibilities - Sarah Palmer had moved (did we ever see establishing shots of the Palmer house for her scenes?), and the house been sold once or twice since then - or we don't actually know, unless it's somewhere in the canon of trivia, when the Palmers bought the home. The only clue about the year in the entire episode was the Valero station - those have been around since, I think, the early 1980's. So it could've been 1985, or 2015.

This round of the series established a kind of circle of initiates - the Blue Rose stuff, explicitly, Major Briggs, Naido/Diane, Mr. C - so that even when we didn't know, as viewers, exactly what was going on, we had signs that post-coma Cooper, and others, understood what was unfolding. That came to a neat head when Lucy shot Dark Cooper, so that even her innocence had inferred enough about the occult plot to aim her gun.

Episode 18 Dale can be either partly a stand-in for more intense followers of the show, who are going to keep persisting in seeking meaning and resolution in spite of endless deferrals, or a placeholder before Season 4 Cooper et al. re-initiate some sequence of positive action.

It's also meaning itself, and understanding, that constantly eludes, even as we move along our tracks seeking it like greyhounds pursuing a mechanical rabbit. Eerie to me that John Ashbery, who like Lynch could move through generic registers with ease, with the same liquid irresolution, died the day this final episode streamed.