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The Valero station is definitely 2015. The gas was 3 bucks a gallon.

The house Cooper and Carrie visit, the former Palmer house, is now owned by the Tremond family who bought it from Chalfont.

Chalfont and Tremond is

Spoiler

The old lady who had the boy with her. She was at that meeting with Bob, the dwarf and giant above the gas station

This thread has been incredible to catch up on. Thanks to everybody who took time to write about this incredible finale.

Finally caught up with the last 4 episodes. Pretty shattering and, on the whole, very emotionally satisfying. My takeaway is that the "big picture" is dealing with the transgressions/mistakes of our youth (including fresh F.B.I. Agent Cooper's botched operation prior to the start of the original show), and how the prism of aging makes us more confused about our core essence and the impact we have on our spheres of influence. Ultimately, we become discombobulated voices and images that are remade by those we've forged relationships with, and we need to stay alive through dreams and the collective unconscious. Lynch is neither a practicing Buddhist nor is he in therapy, but there are so many intersections between these two schools of thought throughout this season that I think adherents of both will have a lot to masticate over for years to come! Sheryl Lee's monologue in the car during the final episode is so beautiful, and her performance, as in Fire Walk with Me, is really masterful.

Moreso than even Laura Dern, I am convinced that she is Lynch’s muse and the absolute ideal vessel for his sensibility and seriously immeasurable level of raw unironic empathy. She just gives the material every bit of what it deserves and then 10% more. I’m so glad he saw fit to end the series with her, and to drive home that this was always all about Laura Palmer.

She's a great screamer.

I wonder how many takes that took. Particularly because it looked painful.

onedimension wrote:It's also meaning itself, and understanding, that constantly eludes, even as we move along our tracks seeking it like greyhounds pursuing a mechanical rabbit. Eerie to me that John Ashbery, who like Lynch could move through generic registers with ease, with the same liquid irresolution, died the day this final episode streamed.

Although I think one of Lynch's goals is precisely to invite the sort of endless theorizing that he himself refuses to indulge (presumably because then his "authorial" interpretations would be seen as definitive and end the roundelay of speculation), personally I'm partial to this kind of (formalist?) anti-reading. To me the many, many motifs in the series—Chalfont, "My Prayer," motels, etc.—function kind of like the stripe pattern on the tie and the box in Un chien andalou: a rhyme that teases at but refuses to fix into a larger, meaningful pattern.

whaleallright wrote:

onedimension wrote:It's also meaning itself, and understanding, that constantly eludes, even as we move along our tracks seeking it like greyhounds pursuing a mechanical rabbit. Eerie to me that John Ashbery, who like Lynch could move through generic registers with ease, with the same liquid irresolution, died the day this final episode streamed.

Although I think one of Lynch's goals is precisely to invite the sort of endless theorizing that he himself refuses to indulge (presumably because then his "authorial" interpretations would be seen as definitive and end the roundelay of speculation), personally I'm partial to this kind of (formalist?) anti-reading. To me the many, many motifs in the series—Chalfont, "My Prayer," motels, etc.—function kind of like the stripe pattern on the tie and the box in Un chien andalou: a rhyme that teases at but refuses to fix into a larger, meaningful pattern.

I think this is exactly right. Inland Empire works in a very similar way. Meaning eternally withheld just out of grasp is the end Lynch now works toward. Beautiful, terrifying confusion.

Just to say, thank you, for the post on the previous page, cde. Helped me to put some things into perspective. I find it telling that the Lynch/Frost logo was coming up in complete silence at the very end.

On reddit, I think, someone's convinced they spotted the Experiment/Mother in one of the Palmer/Tremond house windows literally frames before it cuts to Laura/Carrie screaming.

Cheers Finch.
No work of art has left me buzzing like this in years.

mfunk9786 wrote:I wonder how many takes that took. Particularly because it looked painful.

This final scene was one of the few that descriptions of got leaked online, and one member on dugpa.com was there while they filmed it. If I remember correctly, they said three or so takes were filmed. That sounds about right because Matthew Lillard said in one interview that they only had time for two takes for his breakdown during the interview with Chrysta Bell sitting opposite (was it Part 9? I don't remember). I don't know whether Lynch usually only takes this few takes or whether it was to some extent necessitated by the sheer amount that they had to shoot.

Spoiler

After Cooper emerged from the Black Lodge at the end, he no longer seemed himself. If he had had those black eyes, I would have assumed he was evil Coop. Obviously, the final scene seemed in line; but the acting (gestures, gait, delivery, etc.) all seemed out of the "Evil Coop" playbook.

Just sayin'.

denti alligator wrote:

Spoiler

After Cooper emerged from the Black Lodge at the end, he no longer seemed himself. If he had had those black eyes, I would have assumed he was evil Coop. Obviously, the final scene seemed in line; but the acting (gestures, gait, delivery, etc.) all seemed out of the "Evil Coop" playbook.

Just sayin'.

Spoiler

Maybe he gave some part of his innate goodness by having a new Dougie created to go back to his family?

The fact that The Return happened in the first place was amazing enough - to have it be so great was just miraculous. Watching this week to week has been such a pleasure. I'm glad it wasn't all dumped at once, as having a week between parts to process and mull over everything up to the current moment was in some respects almost a necessity for me (though I think the initial release of the first four parts was smart, giving us a more substantial block to acclimate us to what the new series was going for rhythmically and stylistically).

Spoiler

I said before that it was almost impossible to predict where the show was going, but one thing I did feel relatively certain about was Laura returning in some fashion. I thought there would have to be some sort of confrontation with Sarah, and I was terrified of what that might entail. What we got instead, as presented by these last two parts was more disturbing that whatever I had imagined. Cooper's attempt to save Laura from her own fate, to right the wrongs of the past, was bound to be doomed, but having it play out in such an inscrutable way (plot-wise I mean; in an intuitive, free-associative way, it makes total, horrifying sense) was devastating. The last few minutes were perfect, and as mfunk said above, Sheryl Lee is absolutely key to this. Her confusion as they stand in the street, the way she slowly looks over at Cooper as he asks, "What year is this?" and the dawning awareness that creeps into her face as the faint "Laura!" is heard from inside the house is so beautifully played. There are any number of scenes from The Return that will be bouncing around in my head for years to come, but this final moment of dislocation, screams, and despair in front of a haunted house will probably never stop giving me chills.

I suppose it was the interview with Showtime's David Nevins (on Aug. 7th) where he mentioned he'd be open to doing another season if Lynch wanted to which make me wonder if an announcement was being held off until after the finale had aired. As open-ended as Lynch may generally be, he has never before left things in such an inconclusive state (his most obtuse films, Lost Highway and Inland Empire, still feel like they've reached an earned resolution). The exception to this would be the second season of Twin Peaks where both he and Frost had hoped the final episode would persuade the network to renew the show for a third season. The two-part finale of The Return actually has all the earmarks of a series preparing for another season in the way the main conflict (established in that 1991 season two finale) is resolved while new, deeper mysteries are introduced.

Still, I won't be too disappointed if Episode 18 is, indeed, the end and I have some admiration for the way it honors the happenstance legacy of Twin Peaks as being forever unfinished.

The clues for how this would end is in the very first scene of The Return where...

Spoiler

...the Fireman tells Cooper that he should remember the names "Richard" and "Linda" and that Cooper is "very far away". Like in previous Lynch films, characters take on different identities in the final episode and, perhaps, the Fireman is gently alerting Cooper that he is not who he thinks he is. In fact, the Cooper that eventually escapes the confines of "Dougie" and the character of "Richard" parallel how the character of "Betty" is really the idealized version of "Diane" in Mulholland Dr.. Special Agent "Richard" is a darker, less confident and less earnest version of Cooper. He also displays some of the same traits as Mr. C. In other words, he is not wholly good or bad, and comes across as the more realistic character when juxtaposed with the Cooper we were rooting to return.

"Who is the dreamer?" Gordon Cole asks. It seems to me that Richard is the dreamer and he eventually wakes up in Odessa, TX determined to solve a mystery where all of the gathered evidence, which seemed so solid in his dream, is slipping away from his grasp.

denti alligator wrote:

Spoiler

After Cooper emerged from the Black Lodge at the end, he no longer seemed himself. If he had had those black eyes, I would have assumed he was evil Coop. Obviously, the final scene seemed in line; but the acting (gestures, gait, delivery, etc.) all seemed out of the "Evil Coop" playbook.

Just sayin'.

Cooper's identity shifts the more and more he tries to deny his reality.
Evil Coop was never really just an evil twin, but a reflection of the repressed negative energy within Cooper. The lines between the facets of Cooper start to blur.
I love the terror of Diane's 'is it really you?'. Is it Good Coop? Evil Coop? What's the difference anymore?

Finch wrote:

mfunk9786 wrote:I wonder how many takes that took. Particularly because it looked painful.

This final scene was one of the few that descriptions of got leaked online, and one member on dugpa.com was there while they filmed it. If I remember correctly, they said three or so takes were filmed. That sounds about right because Matthew Lillard said in one interview that they only had time for two takes for his breakdown during the interview with Chrysta Bell sitting opposite (was it Part 9? I don't remember). I don't know whether Lynch usually only takes this few takes or whether it was to some extent necessitated by the sheer amount that they had to shoot.

That's interesting, because it is so tailored and perfect. I can't think of another instance of two actors just totally nailing an uncomfortable and huge moment so well, perhaps since the fight in The Sopranos' "Whitecaps." This has a very different energy to it than that did of course, but this seems like it might be even harder to pinpoint so well.

In some ways though, even if it has always been about Laura Palmer, I'm disappointed it really again seemed to have been about Laura, as if the show can't do anything else.

My biggest frustration with the revival probably comes from this : though I understand you can't get too far away without people saying "hey, it's not Twin Peaks anymore !", I often felt it was almost just a rehash of the same ol' characters and oddities. It's expected, but again, it felt rehashed somehow, as if Lynch couldn't imagine the show not reverting around the same things it used to revert before, and no matter it tried to make new things out of old stuff (while trying to convince us it wasn't indulging in nostalghia despite doing the exact opposite), it was still, well, old stuff, just with a new form.

I do like Mfunk's analysis on the previous page of the idea of not allowing a person to rest at peace. We have to keep in mind that underneath the quirkiness of the original series lies a very dark heart: That a young girl was driven to deviancy as a result of sexual abuse from her father.

I agree that the final hour was a perfect way to close. I have just one additional thing to add:

Spoiler

The dead man, with his brains splattered on the wall, on Carrie's couch, is the indicator we need to understand that in this new world (parallel world or whatever you wish to call it) Carrie Page/Laura Palmer is involved in some bad shit that will lead to her demise just as it did in Twin Peaks. That feeds into the notion that Cooper isn't going to save her in this new world any more than he did in the old world.

The comparison to The Leftovers finale made on the previous page strikes me as a little funny, since were he not cast in that show, I'm sure Justin Theroux would have been a lock for a major character in The Return.

headacheboy wrote:I agree that the final hour was a perfect way to close. I have just one additional thing to add:

Spoiler

The dead man, with his brains splattered on the wall, on Carrie's couch, is the indicator we need to understand that in this new world (parallel world or whatever you wish to call it) Carrie Page/Laura Palmer is involved in some bad shit that will lead to her demise just as it did in Twin Peaks. That feeds into the notion that Cooper isn't going to save her in this new world any more than he did in the old world.

Good point.

Cde. wrote:

denti alligator wrote:

Spoiler

After Cooper emerged from the Black Lodge at the end, he no longer seemed himself. If he had had those black eyes, I would have assumed he was evil Coop. Obviously, the final scene seemed in line; but the acting (gestures, gait, delivery, etc.) all seemed out of the "Evil Coop" playbook.

Just sayin'.

Cooper's identity shifts the more and more he tries to deny his reality.
Evil Coop was never really just an evil twin, but a reflection of the repressed negative energy within Cooper. The lines between the facets of Cooper start to blur.
I love the terror of Diane's 'is it really you?'. Is it Good Coop? Evil Coop? What's the difference anymore?

Sad to think the "I am the FBI" Cooper we saw in 3.16 and 3.17, the irrepressibly pleasant and assured character from the first two seasons, may have always been a kind of false self.

Roger Ryan wrote:I suppose it was the interview with Showtime's David Nevins (on Aug. 7th) where he mentioned he'd be open to doing another season if Lynch wanted to which make me wonder if an announcement was being held off until after the finale had aired. As open-ended as Lynch may generally be, he has never before left things in such an inconclusive state (his most obtuse films, Lost Highway and Inland Empire, still feel like they've reached an earned resolution). The exception to this would be the second season of Twin Peaks where both he and Frost had hoped the final episode would persuade the network to renew the show for a third season. The two-part finale of The Return actually has all the earmarks of a series preparing for another season in the way the main conflict (established in that 1991 season two finale) is resolved while new, deeper mysteries are introduced.

Still, I won't be too disappointed if Episode 18 is, indeed, the end and I have some admiration for the way it honors the happenstance legacy of Twin Peaks as being forever unfinished.

The clues for how this would end is in the very first scene of The Return where...

Spoiler

...the Fireman tells Cooper that he should remember the names "Richard" and "Linda" and that Cooper is "very far away". Like in previous Lynch films, characters take on different identities in the final episode and, perhaps, the Fireman is gently alerting Cooper that he is not who he thinks he is. In fact, the Cooper that eventually escapes the confines of "Dougie" and the character of "Richard" parallel how the character of "Betty" is really the idealized version of "Diane" in Mulholland Dr.. Special Agent "Richard" is a darker, less confident and less earnest version of Cooper. He also displays some of the same traits as Mr. C. In other words, he is not wholly good or bad, and comes across as the more realistic character when juxtaposed with the Cooper we were rooting to return.

"Who is the dreamer?" Gordon Cole asks. It seems to me that Richard is the dreamer and he eventually wakes up in Odessa, TX determined to solve a mystery where all of the gathered evidence, which seemed so solid in his dream, is slipping away from his grasp.

The other possibility is that Cooper is

Spoiler

currently entirely in the thrall of the Black Lodge. "Leland" tells him to find Laura, and he takes the instruction as benevolent rather than the opposite. It's also possible he's been snared by the possibility of following "clues" and symbols in order to eliminate evil, and undo harm, instead of better enduring it - so that his true "shadow" isn't the violent doppelgänger, but the part of himself unable to relent in pursuit of the good.

My theory is that Twin Peaks: The Return was David Lynch's magnum opus about one of the most high-profile artistic betrayals of his life: the decision by ABC executives to force him to reveal the identity of Laura Palmer's killer against his wishes in season 2. I believe this was the idea that he and Mark Frost hit upon that inspired him to return to this world after years of saying it was "dead as a doornail" and ruminate on what was to him the sad death of a beautiful mystery.

As mentioned elsewhere jiao dai roughly means "to explain." "Judy" is the most dreaded force in the Twin Peaks universe because once it enters, the mystery is over, the dream is shattered. Hawk knows it's something "you don't ever want to know about." Mr. C, however, is obsessed with Judy. Judy is the "A" for "Answer" on his playing card. He wants only one thing: information. He wants that information and it had better be accurate. Mr. C becomes enraged when Jeffries will not directly tell him who is Judy. Jeffries does not want to talk about Judy, just like Lynch famously does not want to reveal the meaning of his work. Mr. C, the inverse of the curious, open-minded Dale Cooper, represents the TV executives and the demanding fans who turned him against his own work, who wanted him to cut the shit and solve the mystery and move on.

David Lynch himself is the Dreamer. The cafe where he filmed the scene with Monica Bellucci was directly next to a museum holding the art exhibit "David Lynch: Plume of Desire." From the spot Lynch is sitting in, when he looks behind him, he is literally looking at a representation of his younger self. Laura Palmer is the embodiment of mystery; the deepest and most successful one he created. Cooper and Jeffries try to overcome Judy, but once it's entered the world their efforts are futile, and it ultimately destroys them.

The Return is an allegory for an artist's struggle to carry on against these meddling forces and other real world horrors. Lynch grew up under the threat of nuclear annihilation. The Fireman witnesses humanity sow the seeds of its destruction with the atomic bomb test and is horrified. What else can he do in the face of immense evil and tragedy but create something pure and beautiful like the mystery of Laura Palmer, put it out into the world, and hope something good comes of it?

Lock this up. Can't do much better than that.