Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.3

[Tribe]

Lonesome (1928)...a German silent that has escaped my radar.

It's actually an American film by a Hungarian director, set largely at Coney Island, and every bit the equal of similarly themed films Sunrise and The Crowd. There's some discussion on the forum here and here.

Man, today rules.

Any particular reason why this film is relatively unknown? Or is it a well-known, well-regarded movie that simply has escaped me all these years?

[knives]

A little bit of both. The film obviously doesn't carry the popular weight of Sunrise for example, but it's become something of a cult title recently(as has it's director).

[Saturnome]

There is much rave about this film on this forum, but it's also the only place I ever heard about it.

Pal Fejos made another film the same year, called "The Last Moment". the brief Wikipedia page about it reads like it's the greatest loss in silent film history. Have any stills survived?
Edit: Whoops, I made the very same remark months ago on another topic (I found my forum avatar doing a google search...)

[swo17]

Any particular reason why this film is relatively unknown? Or is it a well-known, well-regarded movie that simply has escaped me all these years?

I think it mostly comes down to availability. I would guess most here who've seen it have done so with a washed out, sub-VHS level avi file floating around the backchannels, without the talking sequences or tinting intact, and with subs created by devoted fans. I don't believe it's ever been released on DVD or VHS, with the only existing copies coming from occasional TV broadcasts in Europe.

[zedz]

Further to Jeff's comments, when the line was first announced, Criterion did say that inclusion in an Eclipse set wouldn't preclude a latter main line release of a particular film, but there's been no precedent for that so far. Given that the Eclipse titles have tended to be marginal either in their potential market or the state of their elements, and the cost of creating HD masters remains substantial, I think it's safe to assume that no Eclipse titles will get the Blu upgrade from Criterion any time soon - and, I'm picking, probably not before the next big format shift.

[zedz]

Any particular reason why this film is relatively unknown? Or is it a well-known, well-regarded movie that simply has escaped me all these years?

I think it mostly comes down to availability. I would guess most here who've seen it have done so with a washed out, sub-VHS level avi file floating around the backchannels, without the talking sequences or tinting intact, and with subs created by devoted fans.

or live, twice, in a very nice print with all the intertitles, accompanied by the Alloy Orchestra

[monk0nuggets]

So many of the Eclipse boxes sound stellar, but I'm wondering if there will be blu releases down the line. Has Criterion made any comment on such a venture? Like most, I'd prefer blu over dvds, but if there are no plans I may splurge on a couple.

Criterion have never commented on this, but since Eclipse was introduced as a budget line, I'm assuming that Blu-rays would be cost prohibitive. If the cost of producing Blu-ray discs ever becomes as low as DVDs and they become the dominant home media format, I could see them changing their stance. Even if they do, I can't imagine them going back to upgrade many of the earlier Eclipse sets. I would think it more likely that they would select some of the more popular individual titles for a main line upgrade.

That was my guess, but I was hoping since they have said that their mainlines would all be released on blu from now on that maybe they also would do so for the Eclipse line. Oh well I suppose. Looks like I've got some buying to do. Thanks!

[swo17]

zedz: the exception that proves the rule.

[movielocke]

Well just sticking to features we've got six this year and about 15 in previous years. I guess we should be thankful that they put out nearly a decades worth(for them)of silents in about a year.

Edit: Tribe I'm pretty certain it's American.

hmm well if criterion would just give us a Mainline of Upstream and an eclipse of Early John Ford (films licensed from Fox but not in Ford at Fox: ) we'd be well on our way to doubling the output.

Then if they'd come through with a big silent ozu set that double featured over four or five discs (the way the Naruse set used double features) we probably would double the number of silents in a year even without getting to silent mizoguchi.

[triodelover]

There is much rave about this film on this forum, but it's also the only place I ever heard about it.

In addition to the informative Rosenbaum link posted on the previous page, Dave Kehr highlights the film in his recap of the additions to the national Film Registry for 2010. I'm guessing inclusion in the NFR provided additional impetus for Criterion. Furthermore, there's a thread here - and I forget which one - in which Nick suggests MoC are in pursuit of the film.

[swo17]

Furthermore, there's a thread here - and I forget which one - in which Nick suggests MoC are in pursuit of the film.

Here.

[triodelover]

Furthermore, there's a thread here - and I forget which one - in which Nick suggests MoC are in pursuit of the film.

Here.

Thanks, swo. I figured your encyclopedic thread knowledge would come to the rescue.

[Jun-Dai]

Further to Jeff's comments, when the line was first announced, Criterion did say that inclusion in an Eclipse set wouldn't preclude a latter main line release of a particular film, but there's been no precedent for that so far. Given that the Eclipse titles have tended to be marginal either in their potential market or the state of their elements, and the cost of creating HD masters remains substantial, I think it's safe to assume that no Eclipse titles will get the Blu upgrade from Criterion any time soon - and, I'm picking, probably not before the next big format shift.

I could see some of the Eclipse titles making their way to the mainline, but I imagine that would require some external factors to come into play. Specifically a restoration that makes its way around the country, a remake, or something along those lines that would either drive up demand or provide better materials and extras.

[zedz]

That's a good point. If, say, the original negative of I Was Born, But. . . suddenly turned up, or if (yeah right) Wooden Crosses enjoyed an Army of Shadows-level theatrical revival, I'm sure Criterion would bring them out. On a more modest level, full-scale restorations of any of the Eclipse films by third parties could conceivably put them back in contention.

[Cinephrenic]

Yes, but I find it highly unlikely at the moment. Criterion can't even keep up with regular upgrades.

[Zot!]

There is still the possibility of overseas licensees upgrading some of the titles, even if they would not be considered for Blu by Criterion, like the BFI Ozu Blus. Bu I don't think it would be unthinkable that if they wanted to do barebones transfers of hi-def material that they would consider eclipse blus sometime in the future.

[Jeff]

I could see some of the Eclipse titles making their way to the mainline, but I imagine that would require some external factors to come into play. Specifically a restoration that makes its way around the country, a remake, or something along those lines that would either drive up demand or provide better materials and extras.

Yes, a major restoration is the kind of thing I was thinking of. Titles from the Ozu and Kurosawa sets seem like possibilities there.

I could also imagine a few of the higher profile titles being ported over too if supplements came to light or they had a title that might sell well outside of the target demographic (us). For example, while Raymond Bernard might not be known to the general public, Les Mis has plenty of name recognition. I could see a Blu upgrade with a giant sticker that says "The best version of the Victor Hugo classic!" selling well even without supplements.

I was always kind of surprised that one of Fuller's best films, The Steel Helmet, was only available in the box. They've probably exhausted their Fuller supplements at this point, but I'm sure it would sell on Blu-ray. I know Bill Hader and I would buy it, and it would give Skillman a chance to use his cool artwork. The Private Life of Henry VIII, A Colt is My Passport, and The League of Gentlemen are all titles that seem like they had main line potential too.

[brianrsteel]

News on the Kubricks from bluray.com: Killer's Kiss & Fear and Desire as possibilities with The Killing. Has anyone seen Fear and Desire?

[Askew]

Is there any possiblity that Criterion would release Kubrick's Killer's Kiss or even Fear and Desire with The Killing?

[eerik]

Is there any possiblity that Criterion would release Kubrick's Killer's Kiss or even Fear and Desire with The Killing?

Killer's Kiss, yes. Fear and Desire, no.

[Cinephrenic]

Killer's Kiss might get a release. It's second tier Kubrick, but any Kubrick is worth watching, early or not.

[aox]

Fear & Desire and Killers Kiss would make a wonderful Early Kubrick eclipse set.

[captveg]

Fear & Desire and Killers Kiss would make a wonderful Early Kubrick eclipse set.

Now there's an idea. Maybe a third disc with his three shorts: Flying Padre: An RKO-Pathe Screenliner, Day of the Fight, and The Seafarers.

[aox]

That could work really well. I just don't see these films as mainline material even if they are Kubrick. And if BD mastering capability is limited, then there are certainly more important things to be working on at Criterion.

[MoonlitKnight]

I actually have "Fear and Desire" on a bootleg DVD. The sound quality is awful and the picture is even worse (not to mention there's likely some footage cut, since it clocks in at just under an hour and most sources list a running time of about 67 minutes), but I long assumed this was the only way I was ever going to see it. It's definitely Kubrick's weakest film but definitely shows signs of things to come... and definitely not worth locking away in a dungeon. Glad to hear it may be finally getting a legitimate release. Why the sudden change of heart from his estate?

Now let's see Todd Solondz change his mind about his disowned debut "Fear, Anxiety and Depression." :-"