criterionforum.org

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:17 pm**

I love the artwork on DIABOLIQUES, and am glad to see the excellent Hayward commentary carried over from the Arrow DVD. But an 18 certificate? Really?

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:24 am**

reaky wrote:I love the artwork on DIABOLIQUES, and am glad to see the excellent Hayward commentary carried over from the Arrow DVD. But an 18 certificate? Really?

It was given a 12 in 2008 for DVD release.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:14 am**

GaryC wrote:
reaky wrote:I love the artwork on DIABOLIQUES, and am glad to see the excellent Hayward commentary carried over from the Arrow DVD. But an 18 certificate? Really?
It was given a 12 in 2008 for DVD release.

That is correct, I think our designer has copied the format of the Spirits of the Dead outer slipcase and in our excitement to get the art up didn't notice! It will of course be amended. We're not working on final files yet so have no fear all the t's will be crossed and all the lower case j's dotted

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:36 pm**

Are you trying to pull a Mr Bongo?

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:41 pm**

Ah Mr Bongo, even they don't seem to be pulling a Mr Bongo these days, I believe both their recent Bunuel titles were kosher and the discs weren't even too bad.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:53 am**

Another pre-order for Les diaboliques with 2 pounds higher RRP. What's up with that?

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:48 am**

It will be very interesting to compare the upcoming Arrow and Criterion releases of Diabolique in a few months.

Posted: **Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:30 am**

According to DVD Beaver, the Arrow Les Diaboliques is not region ABC like they said but region B. I won't comment on the quality since I'll be accused of bias, but well...

Posted: **Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:27 am**

Der Spieler wrote:According to DVD Beaver, the Arrow Les Diaboliques is not region ABC like they said but region B. I won't comment on the quality since I'll be accused of bias, but well...

Yikes. I'm glad I went ahead and ordered the Criterion during their 50% off sale. Besides the fact that I apparently wouldn't be able to play the Arrow disc after all, some of those caps look absolutely dreadful. I do wish the Criterion had the Arrow supplements though.

Posted: **Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:14 am**

Der Spieler wrote: Apparently replacement DVDs are ready now and BDs should be ready later this week.

Der Spieler, thank you for the info! It's good to know the replacement BDs are on the way. I have not received a reply from Arrow yet. If they don't reply by Monday I'll write them again. They do seem to have a bit of a communication problem.

Posted: **Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:28 am**

Tony,

Does the Les Diaboliques dvd in the dual format box derive from the same master as the previous Arrow Les Diaboliques dvd or does it derive from the master used for the blu?

Posted: **Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:38 pm**

Bicycle Thieves and Rififi are definitely on my to-buy list - but Diabolique is most definitely off it.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:21 pm**

DIABOLIQUES does look alarmingly soft. I wonder if any more can be done with the source print?

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:49 am**

doc mccoy wrote:Tony,

Does the Les Diaboliques dvd in the dual format box derive from the same master as the previous Arrow Les Diaboliques dvd or does it derive from the master used for the blu?

No - from the same HD master as used for the blu-ray, same with Bicycle Thieves and Rififi.

Not sure why Gary has identified Les Diaboliques as region B, it is ABC. The caps he has taken are unfortunately where the negative was at it's weakest, straight after a scene transition. Just one frame later is sharper. I've asked Gary to review this as well as the region coding.

Gary's Cap:

1 frame later:

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:16 pm**

TonyleStephanois wrote:The caps he has taken are unfortunately where the negative was at it's weakest, straight after a scene transition. Just one frame later is sharper.

Is this scene transition right after a chapter switch? Others here have said that DVDBeaver's caps often come at the chapter stops (which again lends credence to the suggestion that he doesn't actually watch these movies all the way through when reviewing), but if this is true then it's yet another inexcusable mistake on the site's part

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:24 pm**

Not sure why Gary has identified Les Diaboliques as region B, it is ABC.

That's strange - Beaver also got the region coding wrong for Marwencol; it orginally said A, but now it's been changed to ABC, as it was always meant to be.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:37 pm**

doc mccoy wrote:
Not sure why Gary has identified Les Diaboliques as region B, it is ABC.
That's strange - Beaver also got the region coding wrong for Marwencol; it orginally said A, but now it's been changed to ABC, as it was always meant to be.

To be fair to Gary, he may not have been reviewing off a final commercial release - he initially got the BFI's Winstanley "wrong" and kept insisting that it was Region B even though I checked with the producer, the technical producer, the head of BFI DVD Publishing and the guy who actually authored the disc, and they all said that it was 100% definitely region-free. (Since the film was produced and owned by the BFI, there was no reason at all to region-code).

In the end, it turned out that the checkdisc had been inadvertently coded for Region B, and that's what Gary reviewed, so he wasn't actually incorrect in his assessment - it's just that what he was assessing wasn't what was actually released. Which is why I really wish he'd make it clear when he's not reviewing a final release version, as there are sometimes small changes made after the checkdiscs come out - which of course is why they're called "checkdiscs" in the first place.

That said, it's pretty rare that significant changes are made to the actual transfer at this stage.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:43 pm**

domino harvey wrote:
TonyleStephanois wrote:The caps he has taken are unfortunately where the negative was at it's weakest, straight after a scene transition. Just one frame later is sharper.
Is this scene transition right after a chapter switch? Others here have said that DVDBeaver's caps often come at the chapter stops (which again lends credence to the suggestion that he doesn't actually watch these movies all the way through when reviewing), but if this is true then it's yet another inexcusable mistake on the site's part

The caps are taken from throughout the film, they are not straight after any of the chapter stops. Gary has added grabs one frame after each of the previous ones now.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:03 am**

MichaelB wrote:Which is why I really wish he'd make it clear when he's not reviewing a final release version, as there are sometimes small changes made after the checkdiscs come out - which of course is why they're called "checkdiscs" in the first place.

Perhaps it would be wisest to not send Gary "checkdiscs" then? -- We've only ever sent pressed discs to Gary. They may sometimes not have onbody printing, but they're identical pressed factory discs to the finished product, and this avoids any of the problems you describe above.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:09 pm**

peerpee wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Which is why I really wish he'd make it clear when he's not reviewing a final release version, as there are sometimes small changes made after the checkdiscs come out - which of course is why they're called "checkdiscs" in the first place.
Perhaps it would be wisest to not send Gary "checkdiscs" then? -- We've only ever sent pressed discs to Gary. They may sometimes not have onbody printing, but they're identical pressed factory discs to the finished product, and this avoids any of the problems you describe above.

Another reason, I find, to review only finished product (which is what I try to do), is that sometimes there is notable value added that deserves recognition. This is true in the case of Arrow, BFI, MoC, Criterion, and others. I don't think Criterion send out screener discs, I haven't reviewed any BFI or MoC, but I hope when I do that I'm given the whole package because those booklets are a big selling point for me.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:13 pm**

The BFI and MoC have always been happy to send me PDF booklets on request.

I usually can't wait for finished packages because of magazine lead times - for instance, I've literally just got my hands on the latest BFI Flipsides in their final shrinkwrapped incarnations, which were posted to me on the day they arrived at the BFI fresh from the pressing plant. But this was about ten days after the deadline for the June issue (out early May), so a review wouldn't appear until early June, i.e. over a month after it hit the shelves.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:57 pm**

Back on topic, now that I think back, Arrow sent me a PDF booklet for Spirits of the Dead.

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:10 pm**

Blu Brew chime in on the Diaboliques Blu:

This title is very hard to assess. Given our limited knowledge of the state of the original elements in this case, it’s difficult to form a proper analysis of the image quality.

If the master was created from a new restoration using the original negative – the elements were either in a very rotten state, or some digital tampering (grain-reduction) came in to play. The transfer here is visibly in a rough shape – with definition, sharpness and clarity being all over the place. Some parts of the transfer offer an adequate upgrade over previous dvd-incarnations, while other parts look little better than an upscaled dvd. Grain is still present, but it looks mostly mushy – strangely clinging to bright surfaces. The film’s cinematography is clearly soft and diffused, but it certainly doesn’t look to be the only reason for the overall lack of definition.

While the overall presentation isn’t terrible and we’d love to further discuss the image here, it might be wise to wait for further clarification/comparison (such as Criterion’s upcoming version).

full review here

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:46 pm**

Finch wrote:Blu Brew chime in on the Diaboliques Blu:
full review here

Anyone calling Ginette Vincendeau "dry" is gonna get a towelling from me.

Posted: **Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:53 pm**

The transfer of Les diaboliques is a bit hard to suss. The elements don't seem to have been in the best of condition, and as a result, the image quality varies significantly through the course of the film. I saw nice grain, and I didn't really notice any DNR, but the sharpness of the image was hit and miss.

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