criterionforum.org

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:26 pm**

For his first theatrical feature, Michael Mann (Manhunter, Public Enemies) returned to the rain-soaked streets of his hometown, Chicago, for a stunning piece of neo-noir starring James Caan (The Godfather, Rollerball) at his toughest.

Caan plays Frank, a jewel thief and former convict who is looking to settle down with his girlfriend (Tuesday Weld, Once Upon a Time in America) and begin a family. But when his ‘fence’ is thrown from a window and the Chicago mafia begin to flex their muscles, his hopes of a quiet life become anything but…

With a sterling supporting cast in the shape of James Belushi, Robert Prosky, Willie Nelson and Dennis Farina, lush electronic score by Tangerine Dream and the assured direction of Mann, Thief is a standout eighties crime flick that paved the way for the his later urban thrillers such as Heat and Collateral as well as Nicolas Winding Refn’s Drive.

CONTENTS

High Definition Blu-ray (1080p) presentation of the director’s cut from a new 4K film transfer, approved by director Michael Mann, with 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio
Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
Audio commentary by writer-director Michael Mann and actor James Caan
The Directors: Michael Mann – a 2001 documentary on the filmmaker, containing interviews with Mann, James Belushi, William Petersen, Jon Voight and others
Stolen Dreams – a new interview with Caan filmed exclusively for this release
Hollywood USA: James Caan – an episode of the French TV series Ciné regards devoted to the actor, filmed shortly after Thief had completed production
The Art of the Heist – an examination of Thief by writer and critic F.X. Feeney, author of the Taschen volume on Michael Mann
Theatrical trailer
Reversible sleeve featuring original and newly commissioned artwork by maarko phntm

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:45 pm**

L.A. wrote: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:26 pm The Video Deck: Thief - A Tale of Three Edits

Michael Mann's Thief will be released on January 26th 2015 and available to pre-order from next week.

Doesn't that article basically confirm that the color scheme on the Criterion release was Mann's revisionist history? And when Arrow says they will be including the theatrical cut, they also mean it will have the original color timing, right?

Ironically, I still haven't gotten around to watching Thief, but I hope to change that this weekend.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:43 pm**

criterion10 wrote:Doesn't that article basically confirm that the color scheme on the Criterion release was Mann's revisionist history? And when Arrow says they will be including the theatrical cut, they also mean it will have the original color timing, right?

The screengrabs in the blog post are taken from the HD masters that Arrow will be using for each version. In other words, yes.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:55 pm**

I really enjoyed this when we watched for film club and might have to pick this one up with the original color timing.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:28 pm**

Quite a comprehensive release ahead. But I guess going "against" the director's wishes might not be something Mann likes.
But for things like this, I think it is truly amazing to be able to propose all this material.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:35 pm**

But on what basis does Arrow make the claim that the colour timing on the old HD master is the "theatrical"? As discussed on these boards previously, the "new" colour grading seen on the Criterion was based on the answer print.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:45 pm**

Ugh, I suspected that the Thief Criterion was way blued-out into oblivion; I had seen the film before in Netflix HD (taken from an MGM-HD source I think), and its much more natural tones looked far more "right"; I just can't believe that the film looked as blue in 1981 as it does on the Criterion disc. It kind of ruins some shots, like the low-angle one of Leo pictured on that blog. Guess I'll have to triple-dip!

(Even Arrow's cover art is way better than the previous two!)

I know I may be wrong, but I just can't buy it. Mann has always loved the use of strong blue filters, but only in specific scenes/locations (e.g. Graham's bedroom as he talks with his wife in Manhunter, or Neil's house as he looks out the window at night, etc.) His films never really have a certain color tone pasted onto every single shot. Like in Manhunter (I use this as comparison point because it comes so close after Thief), many scenes are garishly color-coded, but skin tones and whites are still typically normal, in scenes where there is no heavy filter or strange colorful source lighting, etc. But in the Criterion of Thief it just looks unnatural the more I watch it. It's as if someone painted a light blue/teal layer over every frame, after the fact; it just doesn't look organic, or right, or as good as the other cut pictured on the blog.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:51 pm**

EddieLarkin wrote:But on what basis does Arrow make the claim that the colour timing on the old HD master is the "theatrical"? As discussed on these boards previously, the "new" colour grading seen on the Criterion was based on the answer print.

It does say in the "About the Transfer" section of the booklet that, "This new digital transfer was created in 4K resolution on a Northlight film scanner from the 35mm original camera negative. Director Michael Mann's original 35mm answer print was used as a color reference, and Mann supervised and approved the entire transfer."

Though I suppose its still entirely possible that Mann chose to abandon the color scheme of the original print and change it to what is currently on the Criterion Blu-Ray. Knowing that Mann likes to tinker his films, this seems to be the case (and is what I originally predicted right from the beginning).

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:42 pm**

criterion10 wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote:But on what basis does Arrow make the claim that the colour timing on the old HD master is the "theatrical"? As discussed on these boards previously, the "new" colour grading seen on the Criterion was based on the answer print.
It does say in the "About the Transfer" section of the booklet that, "This new digital transfer was created in 4K resolution on a Northlight film scanner from the 35mm original camera negative. Director Michael Mann's original 35mm answer print was used as a color reference, and Mann supervised and approved the entire transfer."

Though I suppose its still entirely possible that Mann chose to abandon the color scheme of the original print and change it to what is currently on the Criterion Blu-Ray. Knowing that Mann likes to tinker his films, this seems to be the case (and is what I originally predicted right from the beginning).

That might be what happened, but if it is then you'd be calling Criterion liars. The booklet text is clearly meant to imply that the new transfer matches the answer print in terms of colour.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:03 pm**

EddieLarkin wrote:
criterion10 wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote:But on what basis does Arrow make the claim that the colour timing on the old HD master is the "theatrical"? As discussed on these boards previously, the "new" colour grading seen on the Criterion was based on the answer print.
It does say in the "About the Transfer" section of the booklet that, "This new digital transfer was created in 4K resolution on a Northlight film scanner from the 35mm original camera negative. Director Michael Mann's original 35mm answer print was used as a color reference, and Mann supervised and approved the entire transfer."

Though I suppose its still entirely possible that Mann chose to abandon the color scheme of the original print and change it to what is currently on the Criterion Blu-Ray. Knowing that Mann likes to tinker his films, this seems to be the case (and is what I originally predicted right from the beginning).
That might be what happened, but if it is then you'd be calling Criterion liars. The booklet text is clearly meant to imply that the new transfer matches the answer print in terms of colour.

Well, I'm certainly not calling Criterion liars, and even if this is what happened, they still necessarily wouldn't be liars. For all we know, Mann referenced the color of his answer print during the restoration process to jog his memory about the color timing and later said to Criterion, "Fuck it, I want it teal now."

Arrow obviously has firm reason to believe the Criterion version has been tinkered with. It certainly would be interesting to see if Mulvaney would respond to an email about Thief's color timing (the team did issue a response for Scanners).

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:06 pm**

Maybe we just read it differently. If something like that's happened, and the final result is in fact nothing like the answer print, then Criterion are being deceitful by implying otherwise in the booklet. Of course what is far more likely is that the "teal" version is more accurate to the theatrical colour timing than the older HD master (unless Arrow know something we don't).

That said, I don't have a problem with its inclusion, I think it's justified to satisfy those who want a different colour.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:53 pm**

To be fair, it is true that the statement in the Criterion's booklet could be read as "the answer print being used as a color reference" more like a guide (meaning somthing useful for a comparison) than an absolute reference (meaning something you'll do your best to match).

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:08 am**

And the full specs <drumroll>:

Release Date: 26 January 2015
Format: Blu-ray
Starring: James Caan, Tuesday Weld, Willie Nelson
Directed by: Michael Mann

Synopsis: For his first theatrical feature, Michael Mann (Manhunter, Public Enemies) returned to the rain-soaked streets of his hometown, Chicago, for a stunning piece of neo-noir starring James Caan (The Godfather, Rollerball) at his toughest.

Caan plays Frank, a jewel thief and former convict who is looking to settle down with his girlfriend (Tuesday Weld, Once Upon a Time in America) and begin a family. But when his ‘fence’ is thrown from a window and the Chicago mafia begin to flex their muscles, his hopes of a quiet life become anything but…

With a sterling supporting cast in the shape of James Belushi, Robert Prosky, Willie Nelson and Dennis Farina, lush electronic score by Tangerine Dream and the assured direction of Mann, Thief is a standout eighties crime flick that paved the way for the his later urban thrillers such as Heat and Collateral as well as Nicolas Winding Refn’s Drive.

SPECIAL EDITION CONTENTS:
- Limited Slipcase Edition [3000 units] featuring two versions of the film
- High Definition Blu-ray (1080p) presentation of the director’s cut from a new 4K film transfer, approved by director Michael Mann, with uncompressed 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio
- High Definition Blu-ray (1080p) presentation of the original theatrical cut [Limited Edition Exclusive] with original uncompressed 2.0 Stereo PCM audio
- Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
- Optional isolated music and effects track on the theatrical cut
- Audio commentary by writer-director Michael Mann and actor James Caan
- The Directors: Michael Mann – a 2001 documentary on the filmmaker, containing interviews with Mann, James Belushi, William Petersen, Jon Voight and others
- Stolen Dreams - a new interview with Caan, filmed exclusively for this release
- Hollywood USA: James Caan – an episode of the French TV series Ciné regards devoted to the actor, filmed shortly after Thief had finished production
- The Art of the Heist - an examination of Thief with writer and critic F.X. Feeney, author of the Taschen volume on Michael Mann
- Theatrical trailer
- Reversible sleeve featuring original and newly commissioned artwork by maarko phntm
- Illustrated collector’s booklet featuring new writing on the film by Brad Stevens

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:40 pm**

Thought this would be just a direct port of Criterion and its extras, but Arrow is far exceeding expectations here.

Posted: **Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:14 am**

Runtimes for the Arrow special features are as follows:

The Directors: Michael Mann (00.59.28)
Stolen Dreams (00.14.32)
Hollywood USA: James Caan (00.24.38)
The Art of the Heist (01.06.29)
Theatrical Trailer (00.01.52)

Plus the commentary and theatrical cut, of course - and an optional M&E track on the latter.

Posted: **Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:51 pm**

Beaver.

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:50 am**

CineOutsider

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:29 pm**

Blu-ray.com

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:04 pm**

Single-disc edition (omitting the theatrical cut) coming June 1st.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2025 2:20 pm**

UHD upgrade coming in August:

2-DISC 4K ULTRA HD BLU-RAY LIMITED EDITION CONTENTS

Reversible sleeve featuring original and newly commissioned artwork by maarko phntm
Collector's booklet featuring writing on the film by Brad Stevens, new essays by Barry Forshaw and Gillian Kelly, and a new comparison of the different cuts of the film by Stevens

DISC 1 - DIRECTOR'S CUT & EXTRAS (4K ULTRA HD BLU-RAY)

Brand new 4K restoration of the Director's Cut from the original camera negative, approved by director Michael Mann
4K (2160p) UHD Blu-ray presentation in Dolby Vision (HDR10 compatible)
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 and stereo 2.0 audio
Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
Audio commentary by writer/director Michael Mann and actor James Caan
The Directors: Michael Mann, a 2001 documentary on the filmmaker, containing interviews with Mann, James Belushi, William Petersen, Jon Voight and others
Stolen Dreams, a 2014 interview with Caan
Hollywood USA: James Caan, an episode of the French TV series Ciné regards devoted to the actor, filmed shortly after Thief had completed production
The Art of the Heist, an examination of Thief by writer and critic F.X. Feeney, author of the Taschen volume on Michael Mann
Thieves, a brand new comparison of the Theatrical Cut, 1995 Director's Special Edition and 2014 Director's Cut
UK "Violent Streets" opening and closing titles
Theatrical trailer

DISC 2 - THEATRICAL CUT (BLU-RAY) [LIMITED EDITION EXCLUSIVE]

High Definition Blu-ray (1080p) presentation of the original Theatrical Cut
Original lossless English stereo 2.0 audio
Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
Optional isolated music and effects track

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2025 3:18 pm**

"Brand new 4k restoration?" Could this possibly differ from the Criterion? And if so, a bummer that we only get the Director's Cut. Would prefer to have the Theatrical Cut in Mann's preferred color timing, since Criterion indicated that their restoration actually does match Mann's personal print.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2025 3:22 pm**

Drucker wrote: Wed May 28, 2025 3:18 pm "Brand new 4k restoration?" Could this possibly differ from the Criterion? And if so, a bummer that we only get the Director's Cut. Would prefer to have the Theatrical Cut in Mann's preferred color timing, since Criterion indicated that their restoration actually does match Mann's personal print.

The new 4K restoration is the one Criterion made for their 4K release and timed differently than the 2015 one. Note how it doesn’t say “Brand new 4K restoration by Arrow Films” which indicates when they did the work.

Posted: **Wed May 28, 2025 3:28 pm**

The issue about the TC is that except if a label conforms the DC restoration to match the original edit, it currently only is available from a dated MGM master. I'm not sure trying to match the most recently restored color scheme could be applied to it as it is (Mann-approval aside).

Posted: **Tue Jun 03, 2025 8:25 pm**

I admit that when it comes to any of Mann's films, I'm likely to trust an original release print much more than anything Mann has had to say about it, as far as a quality transfer and "restoration" goes. It's hard to think of more than one or two things he's done to his films—from color timing to replacing music cues to rearranging scenes to elminiating lines of dialogue—that was a real improvement.

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