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Lost Highway wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:34 pm I don’t expect anything wildly different, but the sensibilities of directors like Joss Whedon, James Gunn, Shane Black and Taika Waititi still managed to come through in their MCU movies.

My brother described Iron Man 3 as a Marvel version of Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang to me before I saw it and I don't think that was too far off. Was just missing Val Kilmer.

It's surely showing that Iron Man 3 had Black behind it, with its comic tropes and heavy buddy movie aspect.
It also showed that it was a Marvel movie, with its poor villains, tepid pacing and unfunny jokes all landing flat.
Plus the inability to use properly its main character, which probably was a good idea on the paper but turned out to be vastly repetitive and frustrating on screen.

cdnchris wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:05 pm My brother described Iron Man 3 as a Marvel version of Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang to me before I saw it and I don't think that was too far off. Was just missing Val Kilmer.

I actually hated the smarmy, self-satisfied Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, but that approach fit Iron Man like a glove. I think Iron Man 3 is Shane Black‘s best movie and one of the best MCU films.

Precisely the opposite for me. I like a lot KKBB, and quite liked The Nice Guys too, while I think IM3 is amongst the worst MCU movie (thoguh IM2 is even worse) and just a bad movie full stop. It's stupid, poorly paced, not very well written, with not only poor villains but a very poor use of the comic book mythology, all this to end up on a 2hr+ movie that felt endless and predictable to death.

tenia wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:24 pm Precisely the opposite for me. I like a lot KKBB, and quite liked The Nice Guys too, while I think IM3 is amongst the worst MCU movie (thoguh IM2 is even worse) and just a bad movie full stop. It's stupid, poorly paced, not very well written, with not only poor villains but a very poor use of the comic book mythology, all this to end up on a 2hr+ movie that felt endless and predictable to death.

No surprise there then.

"Surprisingly", yes, it seems to make sense, in a way.

Nice Guys, then Iron Man 3 and then KKBB for me, all though I like all of them, and love neither.

Eh, I like them all.

Edit: Also I have to give Marvel and Disney some credit for what they allowed Black

Spoiler

to do with Mandarin. I know that really pissed off fans but it was funny little surprise on my end.

It was a surprise, but I don't think it did much within the movie except being some kind of gimmick. It seems smart just for the sake of it, and I would have preferred a movie less pretentious regarding this kind of inside joke but more focused on being a tighter entertainment.
I also pretty much HATED all the part with the kid, so that certainly didn't help.

It's certainly not a gimmick as a huge part of the film's themes rest upon that reveal. It really emphasizes the constructed way we look at bad and good which has arguably been Black's main running theme since Lethal Weapon.

But does it ? I mean, did people really reconsider where this character's morality is ? I'm not sure. The movie doesn't treat this, or at least not enough. It would have required much more finesse to make this character edgier than it ends up truly being. Instead, it weights on the movie, just like the forced buddy movie with the unbearable kid, or having Tony repeatedly failing to get in an armored suit : it might be a good idea on the paper, but the execution isn't good.

I didn't mention morality, in fact I'd argue the film is fairly unconcerned with that as none of Tony's lesson are moral in nature. Rather the movie's concept of good and bad is that each can disguise itself to look like the other making it unclear that anything certain can be established. Part of Tony's PTSD is presented through an inability to trust reality. The reveal makes it clear that the situation isn't either or with too much indifference out there for the suits of bad and good being just that. You don't need to be edgy, whatever that means, to say good things don't have to pretty and bad things don't have to be ugly. If anything that's one of the first lessons childrens' stories teach. As to your two other complaints, well, it's unfortunate they don't work for you, but they work for me so shrug.