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MichaelB wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 3:41 pm I'm very much of the opinion that unless you have a 4K projector and a huge screen, the resolution of 4K over 1080p makes surprisingly little difference - certainly far, far less than you'd expect from a picture that notionally has four times the number of pixels.

A standard size 4K TV (around 50'') should show the difference quite clearly if viewed from the appropriate distance for the size. The resolution bump isn't as amazing as going from DVD to BD (because BD is also an HD format) but I wouldn't totally discount its effect. The extra information adds up over the runtime.

MichaelB wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 3:41 pm I'm very much of the opinion that unless you have a 4K projector and a huge screen, the resolution of 4K over 1080p makes surprisingly little difference - certainly far, far less than you'd expect from a picture that notionally has four times the number of pixels.

Ironically, even a higher end projector will give comparatively poor HDR performance compared to any OLED or mid range LCD, because of how comparatively dim a projector is.

HDR is 99% of the upgrade, whilst the resolution bump barely matters, demonstrated most clearly by how many amazing looking UHDs there are of films that were shot or finished only in 2K in the first place (i.e almost all modern films).

Disagree entirely on the resolution bump not making a difference. If you go in expecting a jump like the one from SD to HD you'll be disappointed. But I got used to watching UHD discs made from 4K masters, and was surprised at how much softer the 2K upconverts looked afterwards.

This is on my home 65" OLED, so not a giant screen either.

EddieLarkin wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 5:20 pm

MichaelB wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 3:41 pm I'm very much of the opinion that unless you have a 4K projector and a huge screen, the resolution of 4K over 1080p makes surprisingly little difference - certainly far, far less than you'd expect from a picture that notionally has four times the number of pixels.

Ironically, even a higher end projector will give comparatively poor HDR performance compared to any OLED or mid range LCD, because of how comparatively dim a projector is.

So I'm curious, how are most people with a projector and >80" screen setup for BD handling the transition to UHD?

swo17 wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 12:03 am So I'm curious, how are most people with a projector and >80" screen setup for BD handling the transition to UHD?

I'd be curious to hear if anyone's made that jump, too. I'm pretty committed to my 100" screen, and it sounds like home projection is years away from being able to affordably and beneficially handle the improvements UHD offers... I've idly daydreamed of getting a TV to hang behind the projector screen for UHD use, but we're only just starting to get hints of titles that I'd be interested in...

(As a side note, I've more than once wondered why there isn't a non-label specific UHD thread for non-boutique announcements, miscellaneous UHD discussion like this, etc...)

RitrovataBlue wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 12:32 am Don’t Look Now looks breathtaking on UHD but rarely uses the HDR range. Some of the improvement may be in the resolution bump, some may be in the contrast/color stability, and some may be in the HDR.

There are a bunch of reasons. Better codec, higher resolution, higher bit depth, wider color gamut... even though I'm very pleased with the end result, for the SDR BD encode, I had to turn on the deblocking filter on just about every shot of that damn red scarf Donald Sutherland is wearing, which trades concealing block edges for some small loss in texture (it's only turned on when absolutely necessary). On the UHD BD there was no such problem, the film grain in the strong red areas compressed without issue.

senseabove wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 2:15 am (As a side note, I've more than once wondered why there isn't a non-label specific UHD thread for non-boutique announcements, miscellaneous UHD discussion like this, etc...)

Now seems as good a time as any

I know which moderator will be bookmarking this thread

























































































Jeff

David M. wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 11:56 pm Disagree entirely on the resolution bump not making a difference. If you go in expecting a jump like the one from SD to HD you'll be disappointed. But I got used to watching UHD discs made from 4K masters, and was surprised at how much softer the 2K upconverts looked afterwards.

This is on my home 65" OLED, so not a giant screen either.

I use a 55" and even from 8 to 10ft away (current seating is 6ft) the resolution jump can sometimes be obvious, especially on a grainy title (the grain on Blade Runner for example is much finer than any grain I've seen on a BD).

Heck, even 2K UPSCALES can offer more detail due to the larger file sizes and superior compression codec.

My point was, as you say, the difference just isn't as big and if the format only had the resolution bump to sell then I think it would be dead in the water.

swo17 wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 12:03 am

EddieLarkin wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 5:20 pm

MichaelB wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 3:41 pm I'm very much of the opinion that unless you have a 4K projector and a huge screen, the resolution of 4K over 1080p makes surprisingly little difference - certainly far, far less than you'd expect from a picture that notionally has four times the number of pixels.

Ironically, even a higher end projector will give comparatively poor HDR performance compared to any OLED or mid range LCD, because of how comparatively dim a projector is.

So I'm curious, how are most people with a projector and >80" screen setup for BD handling the transition to UHD?

By buying a projector with advanced dynamic tone mapping capabilites, or one of the range of Panasonic UHD players that offers the same thing but at the playback stage (called HDR Optimiser). This essentially maps the nit range available on the disc down to the range that the projector offers. This will allow someone with a low nit device like a projector to see most of the detail that would otherwise be clipped out in the brightest parts of the image, though will still produce a comparatively dim image compared to what one would experience on a mid to high end TV (and thus, although the detail of the HDR will be there, the "pop" will still be missing).

My preference would be to replace the projector with a 77 inch TV, especially if the projection screen isn't too much larger than that anyway.

EddieLarkin wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 8:59 amthe grain on Blade Runner for example is much finer than any grain I've seen on a BD

Blade Runner's UHD is poorly encoded though, so I'm wondering if your impression is indeed because of finer grain or because the chroma noise makes it look like it.

However, this set aside, I'm wondering if that's why the SDR UHDs of the 4 Bruce Lee movies offer virtually no improvement on the BDs, since they've been noticeably DNRed.

EddieLarkin wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 8:59 amMy point was, as you say, the difference just isn't as big and if the format only had the resolution bump to sell then I think it would be dead in the water.

Especially if you know that the film was finished in 2K in the first place. When I bought Get Out, the UHD release was literally twice the price of the BD, and I simply couldn't justify that - I love the film, and I'd seen it on the big screen, but I honestly couldn't think of a single compelling reason to pay that much more. And it looked absolutely fine on BD - it would probably have looked slightly better in UHD, but not in any particularly meaningful way given that this isn't exactly Blade Runner.

(I say "looked" rather than "sounded" because I don't have a snazzy sound system in my living room - the overwhelming majority of what I watch there is mono or plain stereo, and my wife has absolutely vetoed any additional speakers. And while I have a 5.1 setup in my office, as it's quite hard to work on 5.1 projects without one, it's strictly 1080p only. I'll upgrade to 4K if I have to start finishing stuff in 4K, but right now that's not on the horizon.)

swo17 wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 12:03 amMy preference would be to replace the projector with a 77 inch TV, especially if the projection screen isn't too much larger than that anyway.

One of the conditions I've laid down for agreeing to relocate to a remote part of Scotland when my wife retires in a few years is that we make enough of a profit on the sale of our existing house to fund a good home cinema setup in its own dedicated room - but because this won't be for another six or seven years I have the luxury of not worrying about what current technology can do, as the chances are that I'll be able to get something better and cheaper.

MichaelB wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 10:18 amWhen I bought Get Out, the UHD release was literally twice the price of the BD, and I simply couldn't justify that

Nobody should justify that ! I bought Get Out in a DF UHD/BD format when it was released, and it costed me 26.99€ vs the BD-only release that was 19.99€. That's already 35% more expensive, but nowhere near twice the price.

Zoom.co.uk is a UK UHD collector's dream. Every weekend they'll offer a handful of UHD titles each for £9.99 delivered, and often (right now in fact) will run 2 for £20 and 3 for £30 offers.

I have over 100 UHDs and I estimate 90% of them cost me a tenner from Zoom. Even recent titles like Easy Rider and Casino were available at this price mere weeks after release date. Zoom is owned by Uni and Sony directly and so presumably their overheads are much smaller than any other online DVD shop. For this reason the best deals are always on Sony and Uni releases, whilst WB and StudioCanal see such heavy price drops less often and after a longer time after release date.

tenia wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:13 amNobody should justify that ! I bought Get Out in a DF UHD/BD format when it was released, and it costed me 26.99€ vs the BD-only release that was 19.99€. That's already 35% more expensive, but nowhere near twice the price.

If I remember rightly, the prices I was faced with were £12.50 for the BD (as part of HMV's two-for-£25 discount, which back then still applied to brand new releases - I suspect this was one of the things that got them into financial trouble!), or £24.99 for the UHD (with no discount). So it was a complete no-brainer.

EddieLarkin wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:20 amI have over 100 UHDs and I estimate 90% of them cost me a tenner from Zoom. Even recent titles like Easy Rider and Casino were available at this price mere weeks after release date. Zoom is owned by Uni and Sony directly and so presumably their overheads are much smaller than any other online DVD shop. For this reason the best deals are always on Sony and Uni releases, whilst WB and StudioCanal see such heavy price drops less often and after a longer time after release date.

Yes, I very very rarely buy UHD releases in release week - I made an exception for the limited edition of Apocalypse Now last year, and this year of course it's Dawn of the Dead (because in those two cases I felt that it actually did matter to have UHD versions of multiple cuts), but aside from those I've never paid more than £19.99 and in the vast majority of cases I took advantage of a quantity discount. And I also, with only the rarest exceptions (Blade Runner, unsurprisingly, being one) don't upgrade to UHD if I already own the film on BD - although I'm justifying Jaws on the grounds that my BD was a review checkdisc.

(I have rather fond memories of that review, as it's the only time I've ever had anything rejected by Sight & Sound. I can see why - in a desperate attempt to write something original about that film, I compared it to the then concurrent theatrical release The Turin Horse with a straight face and divined a surprising number of parallels, but it was considered a little too whimsical, and so the final piece was a lot more conventional.)

Even simply through Amazon, most studios UHDs are now quickly included in multi-buy sales. While I bought a few straight around release date (I was future proofing for a time but since stopped) at the regular release price, I bought quite a few a bit later on sales at roughly 50% of their regular prices. The Matrix Trilogy can be regularly bought at 30€ for instance, as the US digibook of the Spider Man Raimi trilogy, but I guess the best was the French Blade Runner 4K relase (which includes the workprint on BD) which I bought for 11€ 6 months after its release (the only stupid thing is that the Final cut in this set is on UHD and on DVD, but not on BD, but since I already owned the BD set, I simply swapped those).

MichaelB wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 12:29 pmIf I remember rightly, the prices I was faced with were £12.50 for the BD (as part of HMV's two-for-£25 discount, which back then still applied to brand new releases - I suspect this was one of the things that got them into financial trouble!), or £24.99 for the UHD (with no discount). So it was a complete no-brainer.

Yeah, in these conditions, it's indeed a no-brainer. It's silly to apply asymetrical discount this way.

Is this the right place to ask for 4k TV recommendations? I got a Plasma in 2015 I've been very happy with. But I'm moving for the second time in two years and it occurs to me that the cost of a brand new TV may be only slightly greater than the cost of moving my existing TV. I'm confused about HDR/DOLBY VISION/etc.

If I wanted a 55/65 inch TV, and one with the right bells and whistles in terms of getting the best 4k image, how much are they going for these days and what do folks recommend?

Vizio P series, P series Quantum, I think there’s a TCL 8 or 9 series that gets good reviews - those are, IMO, the sweet spot for quality and price - but a 65” tv could set you back a thousand dollars..

So this is a great TV?.

I paid $2k for my plasma 5 years ago. I'm not saying $1k is anything to sneeze at, but I have hired movers to move my TV and mount it for me. The cost of doing so is likely to be at least a few hundred bucks, so at that point: why move the TV and why not just buy a new one?

If you want to go a little more expensive (but still less than you paid for the plasma!); I'd go for the LG OLEDs; there really is no better type of TV for HDR than OLEDs, and the true black levels are really meaningful for someone who watches a ton of movies. I've had a 55" for several years now and when I moved into a new house last fall, waited for a sale and got the 65" for like $1750; could not be happier with these for both 4K streaming and UHD discs, and standard blus and DVDs also look about as good as possible.

Ah so I see the price differential between LED/OLED is significant enough that I probably won't upgrade quite yet. Just got off the phone with an electronics store that confirmed that for me at the same time as your post. As tempting as it is to go 4k, I want to make sure I'm doing so for an OLED and I'm not quite ready to splurge that much yet. Thanks for the feedback!

I have no immediate plans to get a 4K setup either but have decided to start supporting the UHD format (take heed, boutique labels!) since I assume it's only a matter of time before I will. It certainly makes it easier that virtually all the titles I would want so far come dual-format with a Blu-ray disc

I splurged on a 77" LG OLED on Black Friday and I tell it I love it every day, I literally say the words "I love you" out loud to my television 6+ months on. I'm still dazzled by even the most mundane things like fades to black where the display well and truly fades to perfect black.

stevewhamola wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:07 pm I splurged on a 77" LG OLED on Black Friday and I tell it I love it every day, I literally say the words "I love you" out loud to my television 6+ months on. I'm still dazzled by even the most mundane things like fades to black where the display well and truly fades to perfect black.

Don't get me wrong I want to upgrade! But paying for a move and other things comes first, unfortunately!

If anyone in the US wants Turbine’s Crash 4K, get it now. DiabolikDVD only had 10 copies in stock when I ordered mine minutes ago.

As for TVs, I have a 2019 TCL 55” and a Sony UBP-X700. Both are entry level price but well extremely well reviewed within their price range. The 4K BD experience is overwhelming, and I didn’t have to spend more than $650.

Drucker wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:52 pm So this is a great TV?.

I paid $2k for my plasma 5 years ago. I'm not saying $1k is anything to sneeze at, but I have hired movers to move my TV and mount it for me. The cost of doing so is likely to be at least a few hundred bucks, so at that point: why move the TV and why not just buy a new one?

Not great, but very good for the price. I know those models are marked down because they're about to be replaced - you could probably find a Best Buy willing to knock another couple hundred off the price.

The base 55" LG OLED set comes down to around 1500 at some point every year.. last year's model is 1300 right now - https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-clas ... lsrc=aw.ds

And yeah, without getting into the weeds, OLED is the best option.