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People should really go and watch Colectiv. Staggered I seem to be the first poster mentioning it on the forum – either that or my searching truly sucks. A fantastic documentary for our times, one that feels oddly prescient for the UK right now, where there are procurement scandals bubbling under in the UK health system, but which has a public too distracted by populist issues, such as the display of the British flag and vaccine passports, to give a fuck.

It’s hard to be truly shocked by video and news reports nowadays, but there’s one piece of footage in this that will generate a reaction in everyone who watches it.

How has it taken until now for a Romanian film to get an Oscar nomination by the way?!

Edit: corrected sentence

This will be showing this Monday 29th March at 9 p.m. on BBC4 in the UK.

I had to go to imdb to check but was very surprised to be reminded that 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days (even after winning the Golden Globes and Cannes) never even got shortlisted for nomination in its year.

That’s one of the reasons the rules were changed to create a sub-jury that nominated a select number of movies to stop high profile omissions like that from happening

So Colectiv is the 3rd prominent film to deal with the corruption and indifference of the Romanian health care system, following 2005's Death of Mr. Lazarescu and 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days (2007). Though this documentary tackles the subject head on and of course 4, 3, 2 looked at an earlier era.

When I visited Romania in the Fall of 2017, it was an article of faith from everyone I spoke to that the gov't was totally corrupt, and many were considering emigrating, often with relatives already abroad.
I'd be interested in seeing a documentary about the effects of Romania (and even more so, Bulgaria) emptying out after they joined the EU, and how those high levels of emigration have affected society (and morale). I would expect that that has impacted the medical profession in Romania, though this seems to be more a case of corporate fraud and malfeasance, in search of profits with callous disregard for human life.

Similar to issues China has faced over and over with such things as the 2008 melamine scandal, where milk and baby formula were intentionally tainted with a cheap plastic resin in order to test as though they contained sufficient protein levels. More recent and relevant, there were a series of vaccine scandals in China from 2013 - 2019: including not refrigerating rabies vaccine to save money in 2016, and the 2018 scandal involving mixing expired children's diptheria/tetanus vaccine and falsifying inspection documents, ultimately resulting in a $1B fine and the company having its license revoked. As one can imagine, the consequences of such repeated vaccine scandals have many Chinese wary about getting Chinese CV-19 vaccines and trusting the pharmaceutical industry or its gov't overseers.

Sorry for the digression, but it is a timely subject with relevance and application to many other countries. Certainly hope I can get to see Colectiv.

Just beginning to watch Colectiv and that 2015 nightclub fire that caused the initial tragedy is horribly reminiscent of the 2003 Station nightclub fire in Rhode Island which similarly was caused by pyrotechnics being unwisely set off indoors in a venue that did not have enough proper fire exits to let everyone escape.

EDIT: Yeah, the one area you should not really cost-cut on in a hospital setting is the disinfectant. Yikes. That's where the nepotism of lucrative tenders being provided for those with the right inside contacts literally turns deadly.

EDIT 2: Wow, and now that suddenly turned into a conspiracy film with the 'suicide' of the guy who ran the pharmaceutical company at the centre of the scandal. With the investigators being aggravatingly too soft in asking the ministry "who signed off on the biocides?", when it is obvious they themselves did. All going easy on them is doing is giving them time to cover their tracks.

EDIT 3: Thank goodness the government changed so that the incoming government could be candid about the decision to not send the overwhelming number of patients outside of the country for treatment as being a purely political decision made by the previous administration. It could have been really awkward for them otherwise.

Lemmy Caution wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:21 pm So Colectiv is the 3rd prominent film to deal with the corruption and indifference of the Romanian health care system, following 2005's Death of Mr. Lazarescu and 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days (2007). Though this documentary tackles the subject head on and of course 4, 3, 2 looked at an earlier era.

When I visited Romania in the Fall of 2017, it was an article of faith from everyone I spoke to that the gov't was totally corrupt, and many were considering emigrating, often with relatives already abroad.

It is interesting that this is the exact period covered by the film with the interim minister getting told much the same thing by his father (to return to Austria rather than trying to change Romania) in the wake of the previous administration returning to power in a crushing victory, and presumably going back to business as usual regarding corruption.

Relating to 'business as usual' and your early comment about this being the third film to deal with corruption and indifference of the Romanian health care system, it is also important to note that Colective, much as those earlier two films, is using sickness both literally and metaphorically. The film also expands outwards beyond healthcare corruption to touch on the other key elements of the Romanian New Wave relating to organisational corruption in general, the noble crusading of journalism coming up against those using media to obfuscate what should be a clear-cut issue of decent (nay, standard) levels of behaviour, and the insurmountable compromises (and threats of retribution towards those who attempt to change things) that eventually taint everyone with the failings of the system and often just lead to people throwing their hands up to pray for intercession from a higher power as being all that is left. Plus the characteristic aesthetic of lots and lots of meetings and intense conversations across tables!

TMDaines wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:07 pmA fantastic documentary for our times, one that fees oddly prescient for the UK right now, where are procurement scandals bubbling under in the UK health system, but a public too distracted by populist issues, such as the display of the British flag and vaccine passports, to give a fuck.

It is certainly ironic that this documentary was shown on an evening where the BBC also aired a journalistic piece about the quality of the test and trace programme at the biggest, Boris Johnson-backed 'megalab'.

colinr0380 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:15 pmIt is interesting that this is the exact period covered by the film with the interim minister getting told much the same thing by his father (to return to Austria rather than trying to change Romania) in the wake of the previous administration returning to power in a crushing victory, and presumably going back to business as usual regarding corruption.

Relating to 'business as usual' and your early comment about this being the third film to deal with corruption and indifference of the Romanian health care system, it is also important to note that Colective, much as those earlier two films, is using sickness both literally and metaphorically. The film also expands outwards beyond healthcare corruption to touch on the other key elements of the Romanian New Wave relating to organisational corruption in general, the noble crusading of journalism coming up against those using media to obfuscate what should be a clear-cut issue of decent (nay, standard) levels of behaviour, and the insurmountable compromises (and threats of retribution towards those who attempt to change things) that eventually taint everyone with the failings of the system and often just lead to people throwing their hands up to pray for intercession from a higher power as being all that is left. Plus the characteristic aesthetic of lots and lots of meetings and intense conversations across tables!

The good news is that there has been another set of elections since the film was made and the same technocrat health minister has been reappointed as part of a ruling government on an anti-corruption platform.