criterionforum.org

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:52 pm**

dwk wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:38 pm Criterion should have announced today to kill the twitter discourse around Nanny.

Do I want to know?

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:54 pm**

domino harvey wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:52 pm
dwk wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:38 pm Criterion should have announced today to kill the twitter discourse around Nanny.
Do I want to know?

They’re talking about a Blumhouse film from 2 years ago?

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:58 pm**

domino harvey wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:52 pm
dwk wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:38 pm Criterion should have announced today to kill the twitter discourse around Nanny.
Do I want to know?

The director has gone all in on AI slop.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:05 pm**

dwk wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:58 pm
domino harvey wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:52 pm
dwk wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:38 pm Criterion should have announced today to kill the twitter discourse around Nanny.
Do I want to know?
The director has gone all in on AI slop.

Spoiler

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:13 pm**

Even ignoring that the comparisons between AI Art and literal racism is profoundly stupid, why those specific comparisons? A lot of people are worried that AI is going to take jobs so they could’ve mentioned the Chinese Exclusion Act or other similar Anti-Immigration laws that blocked immigration mainly because people feared their jobs would be taken. Like what does the 3/5 act or interracial marriage have anything to do with AI? I’m just baffled.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:22 pm**

TechnicolorAcid wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:13 pm Even ignoring that the comparisons between AI Art and literal racism is profoundly stupid, why those specific comparisons? A lot of people are worried that AI is going to take jobs so they could’ve mentioned the Chinese Exclusion Act or other similar Anti-Immigration laws that blocked immigration mainly because people feared their jobs would be taken. Like what does the 3/5 act or interracial marriage have anything to do with AI? I’m just baffled.

Because their response was intended to end a discussion, not contribute to it

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:31 pm**

More context

My take is that AI poses a real threat to people's livelihoods, and for using it, Nikyatu Jusu should never be allowed to work again

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:47 pm**

People are not ready for what AI will do the workforce, and not just white collar careers. I attended a massive trade show recently where I saw firsthand from multiple organizations the incredible impact AI systems and robotics will soon have on almost every factory job. These orgs even have the lingo all ready: I heard multiple times that displaced workers should be told they now get to redirect their focus and grow. A grim echo of Clooney's strategy in Up in the Air of spinning it as a positive. AI will render many, many concrete math-based jobs (accounting, etc) superfluous as well. Creative arts are really where AI faces some of its strongest challenges, because as my boy Bacon laid it out, "There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion." AI will have to learn how to overcome its tendency to give the prompter exactly what they want, and give it what the AI if it were an auteur wants, so we've got... I don't know, a couple more years at least

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:01 am**

domino harvey wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:22 pm
TechnicolorAcid wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:13 pm Even ignoring that the comparisons between AI Art and literal racism is profoundly stupid, why those specific comparisons? A lot of people are worried that AI is going to take jobs so they could’ve mentioned the Chinese Exclusion Act or other similar Anti-Immigration laws that blocked immigration mainly because people feared their jobs would be taken. Like what does the 3/5 act or interracial marriage have anything to do with AI? I’m just baffled.
Because their response was intended to end a discussion, not contribute to it

That’s understandable but I just wish they had a better closing argument that made more contextual sense.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:13 am**

AI is really good at writing the kind of articles which appear in free weekly papers, however:

Prompt: Write a brief article about the time John Wayne invited Mick Jagger over to his house to make angel food cake

In a surprising twist of celebrity camaraderie, Hollywood legend John Wayne once extended a unique invitation to none other than rock icon Mick Jagger. The unlikely duo's rendezvous wasn't for a jam session or a movie role discussion, but rather for a baking session. Yes, you heard it right – they were set to make angel food cake together!

The story goes that Wayne, known for his cowboy persona on screen, had a hidden talent for baking, particularly angel food cake. Upon learning about this, Jagger expressed his curiosity and admiration for Wayne's culinary skills during a chance encounter at a Hollywood event. Ever the gracious host, Wayne promptly invited Jagger to his home for a baking session.

The scene that unfolded in Wayne's kitchen that day must have been a sight to behold – the towering figure of Wayne, clad in his trademark cowboy attire, alongside the flamboyant Jagger, with his rockstar flair, working together on a delicate dessert.
While the details of their baking escapade remain largely shrouded in mystery, one can only imagine the laughter, camaraderie, and perhaps a few mishaps that ensued as these two cultural icons bonded over flour, sugar, and egg whites.

Despite their starkly different backgrounds and professions, the shared experience of creating something sweet and delightful likely forged a lasting memory between the two legends. And who knows, perhaps somewhere out there, there's a treasured recipe card for John Wayne and Mick Jagger's famous angel food cake, passed down through the annals of Hollywood lore.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:17 am**

swo17 wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:31 pm More context

She should pitch this to Marvel as her concept for the next Vision and Scarlet Witch project, with the prejudice towards their marriage serving as a grand metaphor linking all of our backward ways.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:27 am**

domino harvey wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:47 pm People are not ready for what AI will do the workforce, and not just white collar careers. I attended a massive trade show recently where I saw firsthand from multiple organizations the incredible impact AI systems and robotics will soon have on almost every factory job. These orgs even have the lingo all ready: I heard multiple times that displaced workers should be told they now get to redirect their focus and grow. A grim echo of Clooney's strategy in Up in the Air of spinning it as a positive. AI will render many, many concrete math-based jobs (accounting, etc) superfluous as well. Creative arts are really where AI faces some of its strongest challenges, because as my boy Bacon laid it out, "There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion." AI will have to learn how to overcome its tendency to give the prompter exactly what they want, and give it what the AI if it were an auteur wants, so we've got... I don't know, a couple more years at least

Education used to be a “safe” vocation. I’m not convinced that most of us in the primary/secondary world will still be needed in a decade. We’ll pivot to daycare style centers for very young kids and those who need adult supervision at all times, but the rest will learn independently at home

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:40 am**

domino harvey wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:13 am AI is really good at writing the kind of articles which appear in free weekly papers, however:
Prompt: Write a brief article about the time John Wayne invited Mick Jagger over to his house to make angel food cake

In a surprising twist of celebrity camaraderie, Hollywood legend John Wayne once extended a unique invitation to none other than rock icon Mick Jagger. The unlikely duo's rendezvous wasn't for a jam session or a movie role discussion, but rather for a baking session. Yes, you heard it right – they were set to make angel food cake together!

The story goes that Wayne, known for his cowboy persona on screen, had a hidden talent for baking, particularly angel food cake. Upon learning about this, Jagger expressed his curiosity and admiration for Wayne's culinary skills during a chance encounter at a Hollywood event. Ever the gracious host, Wayne promptly invited Jagger to his home for a baking session.

The scene that unfolded in Wayne's kitchen that day must have been a sight to behold – the towering figure of Wayne, clad in his trademark cowboy attire, alongside the flamboyant Jagger, with his rockstar flair, working together on a delicate dessert.
While the details of their baking escapade remain largely shrouded in mystery, one can only imagine the laughter, camaraderie, and perhaps a few mishaps that ensued as these two cultural icons bonded over flour, sugar, and egg whites.

Despite their starkly different backgrounds and professions, the shared experience of creating something sweet and delightful likely forged a lasting memory between the two legends. And who knows, perhaps somewhere out there, there's a treasured recipe card for John Wayne and Mick Jagger's famous angel food cake, passed down through the annals of Hollywood lore.

I asked ChatGPT to write a short play about William Goldman writing All the President’s Men. The work it gave me brought in Ned Tanen talking to him, and Tanen never worked at WB during the 70’s

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:52 am**

domino harvey wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:47 pm Creative arts are really where AI faces some of its strongest challenges, because as my boy Bacon laid it out, "There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion."

This is what the extra appendages are for. AI can't replicate the subtle nuances of art by fallible human artists, but it can make a Last Supper where Jesus has eight fingers on each hand

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:18 am**

AI is an increasingly useful tool for things like transcribing hours and hours of interview footage - but the result is strictly for internal use only.

But my experience of using it for anything public-facing is that it generally takes longer to clean it up manually than it does to create it from scratch in the first place.

Oh, and I passed a somewhat alarming milestone a few weeks ago - rightsholder-supplied AI-transcribed subtitles. Fortunately, it was so obvious what had happened that I didn't waste my time wrestling with them (and I then clocked that the file actually had "AI" in the filename, so at least they were upfront about it), but here's a randomly-chosen "before" and "after" example, the latter being subtitles that I created 100% manually.

But, David,
I mean, from Frank,
what do you know about this?
Well, perhaps you'll allow me to read it
to. An actual petrol has been destroyed
tomorrow.
All German vehicles in the South
Pier will be immobilised.
Well, well.
Thinking about it this morning,
50 seconds, you mean?
Whatever you do, don't let them feel lucky
when it's not allowed to love them, oh no,
no, no.

What the devil does this mean?
Von Kleist, what do you know about this?
Well, perhaps you'll allow me to read it.
"Tonight, your petrol has been destroyed.
"Tomorrow, all German vehicles in Saint-Pierre
"will be immobilised."
Well? Well?
Second one this morning, Herr Unteroffizier.
Fifty-second, you mean.
Careful, mon petit.
Whatever you do, don't let them see you laughing.
One is not allowed to laugh any more?
Oh, no. It's forbidden.

The worrying thing is that a less scrupulous label might well have just slapped the initial gibberish onto their actual release.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:31 am**

Even casual use of ChatGPT burns through energy and water like madness. But the race to end the world is worth it so we can flip the middle finger to existence from a seven-fingered hand.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:41 am**

Well, a six-fingered one wouldn't have a middle finger, so...

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 10:25 am**

MichaelB wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:18 amThe worrying thing is that a less scrupulous label might well have just slapped the initial gibberish onto their actual release.

I suppose we had to cope with those badly subtitled into English Hong Kong films back in the day, so maybe we might be returning to something similar to that from less conscientious outfits?

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 10:47 am**

domino harvey wrote:People are not ready for what AI will do the workforce, and not just white collar careers. I attended a massive trade show recently where I saw firsthand from multiple organizations the incredible impact AI systems and robotics will soon have on almost every factory job. These orgs even have the lingo all ready: I heard multiple times that displaced workers should be told they now get to redirect their focus and grow. A grim echo of Clooney's strategy in Up in the Air of spinning it as a positive. AI will render many, many concrete math-based jobs (accounting, etc) superfluous as well.

I do believe it's a real issue for creative jobs, but the issue with other jobs is that we're just not ready as societies to accept this decreases the amount of work hours available and thus we should find alternatives to spending that time at work while still having enough money to live.
Tech advances are fine in such a context, but we're still living in a hourly-rate based working world, and not ready at all to go all the way through the reasoning that's it's fine working less because tech made some things way easier, but we should still be able to live decently.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:45 am**

colinr0380 wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 10:25 am
MichaelB wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:18 amThe worrying thing is that a less scrupulous label might well have just slapped the initial gibberish onto their actual release.
I suppose we had to cope with those badly subtitled into English Hong Kong films back in the day, so maybe we might be returning to something similar to that from less conscientious outfits?

Those were sometimes one of the best parts of the movie. I still sometimes chuckle when I remember the awful mother in Daughter of Darkness walking in on her daughter stabbing her step-father to death and screaming "Bitch, what?"

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:09 pm**

And of course the legendary "My brother's not easy to get on with; he's tear and I have mucus" from Tiger On Beat.

Which I understand is an absolutely literal translation of what was said, the problem being that it only makes sense if you subscribe to the Chinese notion of the body consisting of four "humours" that can be either balanced or unbalanced.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2024 7:32 pm**

Hopefully things will settle into a sensible middle ground. I'm not holding my breath, but in situations like translation, I think a best of both worlds approach is ideal where you're not replacing anybody - instead, AI becomes a tool that drastically cuts down on the menial labor. You allow the AI to due a first pass, and then you go through with a print-out and pen and making what are presumably major corrections and adjustments as if you were in charge of doing a thorough rewrite. Then the major hope would be that translators would be able to cover more films in less time, and it would feel less laborious to rewrite a rough-looking pass than fill reams of blank pages. In terms of available work, it shouldn't be a problem - there's no shortage of films that could use new or better subtitling.

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:49 pm**

I'm very wary indeed of using AI-powered translation tools when I don't know the language being translated at all, which is why I used Hungarian-language sources for my commentary for The Round-Up with considerable trepidation. I ultimately realised that I had little choice, because while there was plenty of analysis of the film available in English, French and Italian, there was precious little in the way of production stories (and I was primarily after those), but I was ultra-cautious, running the relevant paragraph through at least two different pieces of translation software, and if they didn't say more or less exactly the same thing (at least in terms of the core facts) I'd regard them with suspicion. But I seem to have got away with it.

The other source languages that I've tackled for commentary purposes have been Italian, Czech and Polish; I'm not fluent in any of them (understatement), but I can at least read them - and in these cases AI translation is a very handy way of letting me zero in on what I'm after far more rapidly than would be the case if I'd laboriously read the source text manually.

(With Face to Face, there was so much material in English that I didn't have to worry about tackling anything in Swedish.)

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:56 pm**

There’s been a lot of discussion on the internet about Adobe the last week or so because of an upgrade of their terms of use. Apparently Adobe demands full and unrestricted rights of all user content with no “opt out” option. I’ve seen concerns from one stock photographer about him possibly being put out of business because Adobe can now use his photos to train their AI to produce the same content he delivers but without him getting paid for it.

I’m not really fit to provide a specific link because I only know about this issue as I recently bought a new camera/lenses and has been browsing for software options to edit images and 8K video. So Adobe keeps popping up in my feeds. But I’ve only watched one youtube video about this particular “use of terms” issue, so I’m not sure how representative this particular video is.

But there is a lot of content about this. Try googling “Adobe terms of use” and possibly include “AI” in the search. The same search in youtube should also give a lot of results.

Posted: **Sat Jan 18, 2025 1:10 pm**

Schrader praises the machine

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